Rampage rebalancing.

[Skald]

Rampage, in my opinion, provides too big of a benefit for too long of a time and too small of a cooldown.

In its currrent iteration, the ability can potentially render one archetype (tanks, though a case could be made for defensive MDPS as well) largely ineffective with a push of a button, as well as grant 100% uptime on landing melee attacks in general. In itself it perhaps it wouldn't be a problem, but it's an ability that can last up to 20 seconds, with only a 30 second cooldown. It's not quite on demand, but it's rather close to that. On top of that, it only requires a paltry 5-point investment in the Path of the Trollslayer.

There are of course several ways to rebalance it, but perhaps the most simple one would be to:

- Decrease the duration to 7 seconds baseline and 15 when Furious and increase the cooldown to 40 seconds.

How would you go about rebalancing it?

[teiloh]

Can you explain how much expected DPR we're gaining from Rampage here? Keep in mind it exhausts your rage and there are a plethora of other abilities that exhaust your rage.

"the ability can potentially render one archetype (tanks, though a case could be made for defensive MDPS as well) largely ineffective with a push of a button"

The function of tanks isn't to get beat on and defend attacks, but also to snare, guard, challenge. Rampage barely interacts with two of these.

"How would you go about rebalancing it?"

It's fine as it is. Maybe swap it to 9x if too troublesome.

[Foofmonger]

Rampage, in my opinion, provides too big of a benefit for too long of a time and too small of a cooldown.

In its currrent iteration, the ability can potentially render one archetype (tanks, though a case could be made for defensive MDPS as well) largely ineffective with a push of a button, as well as grant 100% uptime on landing melee attacks in general. In itself it perhaps it wouldn't be a problem, but it's an ability that can last up to 20 seconds, with only a 30 second cooldown. It's not quite on demand, but it's rather close to that. On top of that, it only requires a paltry 5-point investment in the Path of the Trollslayer.

There are of course several ways to rebalance it, but perhaps the most simple one would be to:

- Decrease the duration to 7 seconds baseline and 15 when Furious and increase the cooldown to 40 seconds.

How would you go about rebalancing it?

Again, I hate to be pedantic but for everyone who reads this thread, this is also in the context of a proposed GTDC change which can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37301&p=404681#p404681

To quote my own opinion here, I agree with Skald on rampage:

The issue with Rampage is likely that it's uptime is far too high, and it needs a duration reduction and/or cooldown increase. The ability for Slayers to have Rampage is not the problem, the problem is that is has such a high up-time in general that it isn't a "tactical decision", the Slayer doesn't have to really decide the use Rampage and then have an issue if they use it at an incorrect time, because it's almost always up regardless so it just becomes a "dumb dumb" button that all Slayers hit before they start swinging. It should have a tactical component where you "decide to use it at the optimal time" because it's not just always up and available for whenever you want it.

Now the question becomes, is a Rampage duration nerf a fair trade for a GTDC duration and defendability nerf? I don't know, someone with more experience in the Zerker archetype would be more qualified than me to answer that level of specific nuance.

[Omegus]

The function of tanks isn't to get beat on and defend attacks, but also to snare, guard, challenge. Rampage barely interacts with two of these.

"Barely interacts" if I'm not mistaken - and I could well be - as rampage allows attacks to bypass parry it also means the guarded damage cannot be parried either (tanks can usually parry damage from guard). I don't know the full interaction 100% so don't quote this as gospel.

Personsally I've always thought it was weird that Rampage was a generic skill. Defense bypass is generally a trait of 2-handed weapons (with dual wield increasing your defenses instead) so making it a Great Weapon only skill (and moving it into the GW tree) might help give Slayers a reason to start speccing for GW.

[teiloh]

The function of tanks isn't to get beat on and defend attacks, but also to snare, guard, challenge. Rampage barely interacts with two of these.

"Barely interacts" if I'm not mistaken - and I could well be - as rampage allows attacks to bypass parry it also means the guarded damage cannot be parried either (tanks can usually parry damage from guard). I don't know the full interaction 100% so don't quote this as gospel.

Personsally I've always thought it was weird that Rampage was a generic skill. Defense bypass is generally a trait of 2-handed weapons (with dual wield increasing your defenses instead) so making it a Great Weapon only skill (and moving it into the GW tree) might help give Slayers a reason to start speccing for GW.

It would make it completely useless to AOE Slayers and thus help kill off another Order AOE class, when Destro is teeming with overperforming AOE abilities. With Guard defenses, you're guarding against yourself unless I'm mistaken.

[Harrwin]

The function of tanks isn't to get beat on and defend attacks, but also to snare, guard, challenge. Rampage barely interacts with two of these.

"Barely interacts" if I'm not mistaken - and I could well be - as rampage allows attacks to bypass parry it also means the guarded damage cannot be parried either (tanks can usually parry damage from guard). I don't know the full interaction 100% so don't quote this as gospel.

Personsally I've always thought it was weird that Rampage was a generic skill. Defense bypass is generally a trait of 2-handed weapons (with dual wield increasing your defenses instead) so making it a Great Weapon only skill (and moving it into the GW tree) might help give Slayers a reason to start speccing for GW.

It would make it completely useless to AOE Slayers and thus help kill off another Order AOE class, when Destro is teeming with overperforming AOE abilities. With Guard defenses, you're guarding against yourself unless I'm mistaken.

Please enlighten me on these "overperforming AOE abilities", i really wanna reroll to an op class.

[teiloh]

Please enlighten me on these "overperforming AOE abilities", i really wanna reroll to an op class.

Try big bouncing or any Sorc spirit damage debuffed by a Magus, or Corp debuffed by Sweeping Disgorgement + Chosen/BO

Sorc with IG from another Sorc lands a Spirit spell 40-55% harder than a BW at range.

[Harrwin]

Big bouncing its not an overperforming skill, and for the others you just listed 3 class combo to make one ability hit harder. You said overperforming ability, not 3 class combos, which order can do aswell. The talk was about one class.

[CountTalabecland]

If a Slayer is causing you much damage as a tank, especially a chosen, you are doing it wrong sad to inform you.

Physical damage even with 50% armor bypass will still bounce off you with decent toughness when coming from AoE Slayer. I suppose you could make an argument for 6v6 but if those big mean Order premades are killing targeting your tanks as a means of winning 6v6 then again, something is very wrong with your grp. And yes Invader gear is helpful in bypassing more armor but few ppl have it and even then, physical damage just isn't that powerful against armor stacked tanks with decent toughness and a crap ton of wounds. Guard damage at that point, even when undefendable, just isn't enough to counter incoming heals.

There is no reason with Squig Pounce and choppa pull that Slayers should be free to kill your tanks at leisure while you sit there and dont heal I guess.

*** As I have said before, given Slayer's non-existent mobility and not having a pull, Rampage is balanced. SO I guess I would balance it by leaving it as is, have a nice day.

[teiloh]

Big bouncing its not an overperforming skill, and for the others you just listed 3 class combo to make one ability hit harder. You said overperforming ability, not 3 class combos, which order can do aswell. The talk was about one class.

It is. Compared to Mara/WL, it costs 20/35 AP per second, has a 8 vs 13s cooldown, and is core vs 13x.

Sorc rotations on their own (IW, two tick Shadow Knives or GON, etc) are a lot stronger than anything the BW can do especially in bombs.

Then there's GTDC which not only has a cancerous pull but also channels a ton of undefendable damage. A 300-500 ID tick isn't that threatening.