Fort/City rework/balance proposal

[Sigford]

Fortresses

Forts at this point in the game are in a poor state. We have players that aren't able to benefit or even receive the gear that comes from this section of T4 ORVR able to enter and prevent those needing the rewards from obtaining them. Forts are highly limiting to the progression of gearing given the major population increase and are extremely imbalanced for the attacker. No I'm not saying gearing should be easy as you should have to work for the end game gear, BUT the 3rd to last tier gear shouldn't be harder for players with high RR to get than the LAST tier set of gear. I know of people that have gotten 5-6 piece Sov before they could finish their Invader which sucks when Invader is required for Sov.

The first proposal in full honesty would be to remove fortresses from the game as they were on live shearly because it's near impossible to balance the fort to give the attackers an actual fighting chance if the defenders are trying. Even with the implementation of the skaven bombs and proper use with the AOE limit being 24 players. Once exceeding 150+ defenders the amount of AOE dmg going out every second EXCLUDING morale dmg which can't be mitigated. When adding Morale damage and morale drains to the mix it's quite literally impossible to push into the doors provided in the forts. Supplementing the gear loss (Invader) and medallions will be later addressed in the City proposed change.

A secondary proposal would be addressing first things first which has been said multiple times, only allow 40/40+ into the forts. This allow so many more people that actually need the Invader from forts to be able to actually progress their characters. As it currently stands if you level your char only through ORVR you're already RR60+ before even dinging level 40. Shortly after if continuing to ORVR achieving RR70 is a very trivial task at this stage in the game and once achieved extremely hinders the ability to obtain Invader without being able to break down Royal Crests. With the limitations on whom can enter the fort the question is still how to balance attackers vs defenders to where attackers actually stand a chance against the overwhelming AOE potential of 190+ defenders (in some cases close to 300 with the new dynamic fort population). The only suggestion I have of balancing would be to bring back the original idea of X amount of damage per flag held at the end of stage 2 inflicted every X amount of elapsed time to the defenders. Obviously the original amount was to high so that wouldneed to be adjusted, AND the fact that if you stay out to cap a flag and die after stage 3 starts you're in jail. A fix to this could be allow defenders to respawn inside the keep until the lord is tagged/pulled. This also would give defenders more options than just holding the lord room and potentially create a more dynamic fort experience for everyone.

Honestly I think this would be a good time to brainstorm ideas from both ends on forts. Forts have grown redundant and a non enjoyable portion of the game I think for many. The above are just things I feel would be beneficial changes and I'm open to criticism/other ideas that would make Forts an enjoyable experience again.


Cities

Cities are probably the biggest and main attraction to those that have been playing RoR since T1-T3 when the level cap was sub 40. Most of us have been awaiting this gear for years at this point and we're so excited that it has arrived. This section is fairly short and sweet as it's addressing the first proposal above (the removal of forts as a whole). If forts were to be removed then the rework of cities would be fairly simple in my opinion.

On live Invader was given out in stage 1 of the city so why not implement that here? First stage of city drops invader from gold bags and all other bags have the option to take Invader or Royal crests. If the Devs wanted to keep the difficulty slightly higher on Invader then do a decrease on how many invaders come from bags since so many go out. Gold bag = Invader piece or 3 Invader medallions, Purple bag = 2 Invaders, everything else = 1 Invader. Still provide the Royal Crest options as they are now of course, Gold = 5 Purple = 4 Blue =3 so on and so fourth. Stages 2 and 3 could also be reworked to incorporate Invader medallions as an option over Royals with the same decrease as mentioned above. It would even be understandable to not put Invader pieces in the gold bags to keep part of the grind for Invader in place. Last, but not least, if the goal is not to remove forts and continue trying to balance attackers vs defenders adding Invader medallions as an option ONLY for stage 1 in cities could also be an alternate proposal to help offset the extreme difficulty to obtain Invader gear over Sov/Warlord. I know it has been mentioned that the breakdown of Royal Crest would incentive the skipping of ORVR content, but by reducing the amount of Invader tokens per bag ONLY in stage 1 to 3 invaders for a Gold bag 2 for Purple and 1 for anything lower would simply provide a little boost to overall Invader Medallion gain for those still chasing the Tome unlock.


Side Note

At this stage in the game I feel it wouldn't be a bad idea to release invaders dropping from players RR60-65+ at a small percentage like it was on live. I also think giving a VERY tiny % chance for players RR80+ or heck even 85+ drop a royal crest to give more incentive for people to actually orvr and not try to throw zones/forts. Gives them a reason to kill people other than just killing them for RR (especially for those that RR is nothing more than a bragging right at this point).

[wargrimnir]

Fortresses

Forts bad.

Forts are highly limiting to the progression of gearing.

The first proposal in full honesty would be to remove fortresses from the game.

A secondary proposal would be addressing first things first which has been said multiple times, only allow 40/40+ into the forts.

Cities

Cities good.

Give invader in cities.

Side Note

Players drop invaders.

Forts are intended to be a gate on how quickly you gain the end game set.

No.

If you can't beat a sub-40 in RvR contribution, you don't deserve a spot.

Rather than repeat these often rejected "suggestions", use some of that gray matter to imagine a design that would make forts interesting or enjoyable to play, and we might see something happen.

Cities are good.

No.

Also No.

Invader is from Forts. Invader requirement is a roadblock to the best gear in the game. This works fine.

If you want to make Forts more FUN™, those suggestions are much more interesting than "this sucks, give stuff faster".

[Sigford]

Fortresses

Forts bad.

Forts are highly limiting to the progression of gearing.

The first proposal in full honesty would be to remove fortresses from the game.

A secondary proposal would be addressing first things first which has been said multiple times, only allow 40/40+ into the forts.

Cities

Cities good.

Give invader in cities.

Side Note

Players drop invaders.

Forts are intended to be a gate on how quickly you gain the end game set.

No.

If you can't beat a sub-40 in RvR contribution, you don't deserve a spot.

Rather than repeat these often rejected "suggestions", use some of that gray matter to imagine a design that would make forts interesting or enjoyable to play, and we might see something happen.

Cities are good.

No.

Also No.

Invader is from Forts. Invader requirement is a roadblock to the best gear in the game. This works fine.

If you want to make Forts more FUN™, those suggestions are much more interesting than "this sucks, give stuff faster".

Gaining contribution over 40s isn't that difficult in the overall scheme of things, but when queing in when not getting a reservation 40s should be prioritized and sub 40s should be the last ones in (this is not the case). Secondly the way the contribution system is setup if a sub 40 were to run boxes the entire zone rather than defend guarantee they get a reservation over a 40 that actually tried to defend the keep.

Also instead of just making tiny points out of the entire post I created (which are fairly inaccurate in my personal opinion) pull out the points that meet the criteria you're looking for. I made a suggestion on how to make forts more "fun" and actually give the attackers a fighting chance.

bring back the original idea of X amount of damage per flag held at the end of stage 2 inflicted every X amount of elapsed time to the defenders. Obviously the original amount was to high so that would need to be adjusted, AND the fact that if you stay out to cap a flag and die after stage 3 starts you're in jail. A fix to this could be allow defenders to respawn inside the keep until the lord is tagged/pulled. This also would give defenders more options than just holding the lord room and potentially create a more dynamic fort experience for everyone.

I get the forts are supposed to be a gate on how quickly you gain the final tier gear, but for those that have played since the beginning and are above RR70 are forced to grind Forts whereas the new players can simply skip forts (which you are so highly against) by just waiting for cities to happen and get invaders by only doing the city. Explain to me how that is any worse than adding in some slight "conveniences" for those that have put their time investment in the game already and are returning at a higher renown level etc.? Also keep in mind this is coming from someone that has full sovereign, I've put the work in and the grind since the beginning. I'm not wanting the gear to be necessarily faster, I just want it to be equally fair to returning players with renown levels that gimp their Invader progression.

The main point of this post if nothing else is forts are unbalanced in favor of the defender with minimum success for the attacker until one side has enough people that want City>Fort and decides to "throw". The best idea of fixing this is to give a secondary objective for the defenders in stage 3 that pulls them out of the lord room. Implement a respawn (to the top of the keep) in stage 3 that starts at 3 minutes each flag reduces it by 30 seconds meaning that if you hold all 5 flags there's a 30 second respawn for the defenders that gives them reinforcements. Once stage 3 starts guards would spawn for whichever faction has the flag that would require at least a 3-6 man to kill requiring some investment of numbers in some capacity in order to actually take the flags instead of 1 WH/WE. For every BO the attacker has they gain a 1-2% dmg buff to assist on pushes.

Could also look at maybe doing a rework on Tank M4s. Yeah they do 75% reduced incoming damage, but Morale damage is not affected by any form of damage reductions. Make Immaculate Defense reduce Morale damage by 25-50% as well as the 75% reduced damage from players (even maybe a decrease in the player damage reduction as a trade off) to combat the abundant morale bombs that even tanks with 12-13k HP can live through.

[EsthelielSunfury]

"Secondly the way the contribution system is setup if a sub 40 were to run boxes the entire zone rather than defend guarantee they get a reservation over a 40 that actually tried to defend the keep."

Mate I just wanted to say you can't lie to people who are playing the same game you are. This is all I do on my BG to get renown - run supplies in every zone, stop doing it and follow ram once it's out, or go in to defend keep if Order is at the gates. I've only ever been in forts once before rank 40 and that was on my AM because my GM invited me in a guild warband for it in the previous zone.

[Sigford]

"Secondly the way the contribution system is setup if a sub 40 were to run boxes the entire zone rather than defend guarantee they get a reservation over a 40 that actually tried to defend the keep."

Mate I just wanted to say you can't lie to people who are playing the same game you are. This is all I do on my BG to get renown - run supplies in every zone, stop doing it and follow ram once it's out, or go in to defend keep if Order is at the gates. I've only ever been in forts once before rank 40 and that was on my AM because my GM invited me in a guild warband for it in the previous zone.

Don't have to lie when it has been done. Apparently you need to read better,

entire zone

run supplies in every zone, stop doing it and follow ram once it's out

see the difference?

[Panodil]

Can also just do nothing in zone and enter fort before lock, you will get trown out but be first in q, then when someone gets ganked and miss their reservation you get the spot.

I cant really say its any problem all to get in even if you dont contribute in zone. Just requires some effort. Invader is way faster to get than sov if you like me only play 10 or so hours each week