Assault SW Tweaks

[zulnam]

[Note, this post contains both buffs and nerfs. Read entirely before complaining about one thing or the other]

Assault is arguably the best SW spec for group play, however even so it is very unlikely for an aSW, even well geared and ranked, to be taken on by an organised guild in end-game content (fort, city etc.).

This is an issue because end-game content gated for an entire class. Since the content itself is as designed the only thing that can be done is tweak the class to better fit that meta.

Here are my suggestions to improving aSW for warband play they are not at a package and can be picked separately:

1. Reduce the cooldown OR increase the AP percentage of Hunter's Fervor. Alternatively, make the ability a morale pump.

2. Reduce Sweeping Slash cooldown to 5 seconds.

3. Turn Swift Strikes into an AoE morale pump with 15% chance on hit to drain morale with 10 seconds cooldown. [this change alone would make aSW extremely attractive to warbands]

OR

4. Turn Swift Strikes into some sort of AoE. Redo Sinister Assault tactic so that Swift Strikes and Sweeping Slash both have a 15% chance to drain morale.

5. To counter the stronger aoe and aoe utility, move Shadow Sting (heal debuff) to rank 13 slot or make it usable only in Scount and Skirmish stance.


To sumarise, when melee SW and SH got buffed both trees were made to do decent damage; however while mSH got multiple AoEs and group utility (Indigestion, aoe punt), aSW was left as a single target tree, similar to Path of Scount and Skirmish. As such while the tree is good, it has no utility and thus no place in the organised warband meta. I believe with a few slight tweaks to core skills this class can find a spot in the meta of end-game.

[cursedflesh]

ad 1. - why? ap regen and morale gain is totally ok

ad 2. - lowering sweep slash dmg with 0 cooldown and increased ap cost will be better

ad 3. - will be too op, asw can be build pretty tanky and any morale gain/reduce ability will ruin big pvp

ad 4. - same as 3.

ad 5. - are u crazy? shadow sting is the only thing that makes asw valuable sometimes, this change will kill it totally

[Mystry]

There are several problems with what you're proposing.

Firstly, forcing the SW to be in skirmish/scout stance to use Shadow Sting will completely kill the class. Stances have a 5 second CD. Shadow Sting lasts for 10 seconds. If you have to refresh your healing debuff (and you will), half it's duration will be lost due to being stuck in skirmish/scout stance, AND it probably means your death since outside of assault stance, SW has zero survivability. As a cherry on top, it's REALLY OBVIOUS when a SW switches stances because of the big blaring icon above their head, so every single destro around will know that you are squishy now.

Secondly, changing Sinister Assault will kill the class. Brutal Assault ignoring all armor with this tactic is what makes ASW; it's literally how they burst things down, with two brutal assaults within their vengeance window. If you switch this tactic into making some melee AOE thing, then you ruin that.

Thirdly, Swift Strikes is how ASW pressures healers and casters. Changing that removes their ability to do so, and, you guessed it, will kill the class.

I DO agree with buffing Hunter's Fervor, and reducing Sweeping Slash CD, but I don't think the goal here should be to make ASW into some kind of melee AOE powerhouse. Slayer already does that.

Instead, I think the answer is to finally fix Scout stance and let that be the 'aoe warband' stance. Heavily buff flaming arrows, make explosive shots a scout-specific regular ability instead of a morale, move lileath's arrow to scout stance and buff it so it isn't so limp wristed; all of these could be done to make Scout less worthless.

Dunno what you'd do about Skirmish though.

[Nefarian78]

Large-scale pvp is balanced around Order having better raw damage and healing vs destro having better morale play. That has always been the case and Order having the same moraleplay as Destro would tip the scales heavily to the other side.

That being said, i do agree that aSW could use some help for largescale fights, although the class wasn't made for that in the first place and buffing it without touching smallscale balance isn't the easiest thing to do.

1 - I've never been a fan of mirroring but there's no reason why Hunter Fervour's should be that much stronger compared to it's mirror, Get' Em. Besides that, Order already has enough AP management to counter Marauder's Exhaustive Strikes. Wouldn't make aSW a more interesting pick.

Adding yet another morale pump, an aoe one at that, i feel it would be too strong, especially once the Marauder's morale drain and stopper switch places. In addition to that it would further make morale dump meta more prominent in 6v6 than it already is and buff an already very solid class in smallscale.

2 - Don't see why not. Would turn you into a Pierce Defenses bot though and Engineers already cover that role in addition to bringing more utility and, probably, damage.

3 - Stupidly overpowered. Aoe morale pump AND drain ontop of excellent aoe damage on a 5s cooldown via Whispering Wind? It wouldn't make asw "extremely attractive", it would make it into an absolutely overpowered monster in both Warband and 6v6 fights. Just no.

4 - Basically, you want to turn aSW into a Monstro Mara. Let's not do that.

5 - Slayers can reach Deep Wounds in their aoe build, there's always going to be a healdebuff on the killtarget in warbands. That change only harms aSW in smallscale

[zulnam]

Again these are just ideas to make SW relevant to warband play. I am not saying they are great or perfect and am open to alternatives. But as it stands it looks to me like SW (on order side) is the only class that has absolutely no spec that is viable for warbands.

@cursedflesh

1. it is not morale gain, only ap gain. and it is not that good if you look at AP input/output during a fight.

3. See 5.

5. See 3.

@Mystry

I am not forcing aSW to drop heal debuff. I am merely suggesting that the focus of aSW should be maybe something else, more team-oriented.

Brutal Assault with armor penetration is good but it is situational. Also you are slotting 1 tactic that affects 1 ability that can be used whenever every 30 seconds for 2 times or only when behind the target.I would sacrifice it to gain group utility.

In my experience with the class (vanq gear, rr65) Swift Strikes is useless. It's damage is very low. I find it hard to believe it is useful against healers, or in any case can even be specced alongside heal debuff. You must be sacrificing a lot of the end tree stuff. I would like to see that build, maybe there's something i'm missing. When I run alone (or in a group with no heal debuff) i run this.

@Nefarian78

3 & 4. I don't see why not. I agree it would be great not to mirror all abilities but as long as morale plays a big role in warband play, then it needs to be fairly represented on both sides. Perhaps switch this idea to a tactic/ability that on hit has an x% chance to morale pump.

5. This was only put as a counter to giving SW morale pump/drain abilities. Oh god devs please don't just take this only one suggestion from my entire list that would be horrible!!!

[jokerspsycho]

Secondly, changing Sinister Assault will kill the class. Brutal Assault ignoring all armor with this tactic is what makes ASW; it's literally how they burst things down, with two brutal assaults within their vengeance window. If you switch this tactic into making some melee AOE thing, then you ruin that.

Thirdly, Swift Strikes is how ASW pressures healers and casters. Changing that removes their ability to do so, and, you guessed it, will kill the class.

Newer player here, what would the ideal spec look like for ASW? Figured running the 15% dmg and 50% crit dmg plus 25% to crit for swift strikes would be your top two.

Would enjoy seeing something like crosscut being removed and replaced by shadowstep, SS cd reduced to 10-15s and the def buff strength reduced a bit to compensate, sweeping strikes to be an aoe instead of cone, 10-15s cd and something like a 20% slow for 5s to add some aoe utility to it, plus whirling pin cd reduced from 30 to 15 and the slow reduced to 5s. That plus SS change encourage more in and out play. Could just be making a good spec better but just my thoughts of fun changes as a new SW.

Would still leave the scout tree wanting ofc. Really doesnt have a place since everyone can do your job but better and as you said, skirm would still be in an odd place as well accomplishing nothing the other two cant. Maybe make scout higher ST and skirm AOE? Idk just a noob here lol.

[Mystry]

Newer player here, what would the ideal spec look like for ASW? Figured running the 15% dmg and 50% crit dmg plus 25% to crit for swift strikes would be your top two.

Would enjoy seeing something like crosscut being removed and replaced by shadowstep, SS cd reduced to 10-15s and the def buff strength reduced a bit to compensate, sweeping strikes to be an aoe instead of cone, 10-15s cd and something like a 20% slow for 5s to add some aoe utility to it, plus whirling pin cd reduced from 30 to 15 and the slow reduced to 5s. That plus SS change encourage more in and out play. Could just be making a good spec better but just my thoughts of fun changes as a new SW.

Would still leave the scout tree wanting ofc. Really doesnt have a place since everyone can do your job but better and as you said, skirm would still be in an odd place as well accomplishing nothing the other two cant. Maybe make scout higher ST and skirm AOE? Idk just a noob here lol.

My Shadow Warrior is just an alt, not my main, but as a bare minimum 40/40 spec I'd probably do something like this:

40/40 ASW

Given that its a 40/40, you aren't gonna be critting anyway so extra crit bonus doesn't do much; I elected to get more ballistic skill instead. ASW really needs high renown ranks to get good, and even then WL/Slayer will do better. The entire class and all three of its trees need attention.