Huge Order/Destro moral unbalance

[Direbloodykiller]

Those last days with my order warband, we had the feeling that our destro opponents were able to get their Moral 2 (at least) much faster than us. It was more particularly obvious during city attack or defense, since you have removed the possibility to build moral against NPC : Some destro warband dropped their M2 in an average estimation of 10s (!) after an impact, while we had to wait approximatively 30s for those still alive to get our M2.

So we investigate deeper this subject, considering tactics and ability impacting moral (and not considering moral itself has the matter is to get them) and here is the picture:



For the “balanced” comparison:

• 2 Destro DPS have a moral drain (Witch Elf, Marauder), and 2 order DPS have a moral drain (Swordmaster and Witch hunter)
• 1 DPS (Withch Elf) have group moral pump, and 1 order DPS has group moral pump (Witch hunter)

And that’s it!

Now see the difference between side:

• 1 Destro healers (shaman) have group moral pump, whereas 1 order heal (Archmage) has a single target moral pump
• 5 Destro characters have a personal moral pump (Zealot, Chosen, Black orc, Sorcerer, squig herder), whereas 2 order DPS have a personal moral pump (Bright Wizard, White Lion)
• 1 destro DPS has a moral block for 5s (Marauder), nothing similar on order side

Speaking only about the heals, the difference is huge all the more as you have removed the AOE moral drain from Rune Priest’s concussive rune. Seriously there is no way we can match a specialized moral warband as we met those days. I strongly recommend all destro to play massively those tactics and abilities to show you that there is a real balancing issue between sides.

You should consider this topic as first priority as it is killing the game especially in Cities.

If you mean wave of terror from Mara is 13 points on brutality tree and cannot be use on monstro stance.
No maras uses this ability.

no wh uses VJ either so that no mara usese this or that is totaly irrelevent

[convexte]

bla bla bla

First - i have sorc too and i know how this class doing damage, 99% sorcs here cant melee bomb.If you spamming PoS from a distance - ofc you cant outdamage melee BW.

Second - i said nothing about mara morale drain nerf, so im just ignoring half of your message cause you talking with voices in your head.

I said about situation in general, ofc with "ideal example" about 14400 dmg morale drop.Its easy doable and uncounterable.Thats all.

[Lorsten]

Wow, looks like 1% sorc player here! Saying Sorc bomb dmg equals BW bomb dmg is nonsense.

[convexte]

Saying Sorc bomb dmg equals BW bomb dmg is nonsense.

Again,voices in your head.I never said this.

I'll stop here, not interested in this type of conversation.

[teiloh]

hey maras morales drain ap drain wave of terror bla bla bla bla all in 1 package trade for ID+ramgpage deal?

If you "equalize" Choppa and Marauder pulls, revert Chop Fasta, etc sure

[teiloh]

"Why ppl who play BW always forget to mention that their raw dps is way superior to sorc, and any other dd ingame, and they bomb better."

Nope. Played both RR70+ BW and RR70+ Sorc. They've very close, until you realize how ubiquitous Spirit debuffs are. Then the Sorc gets an edge, especially with IW and that wasn't with the CD decreaser cheese.

Once all of the out-of-class things are factored, the Sorc ends up doing more AOE damage in practice.

[roadkillrobin]

Much whinery about Maras draining tanks here.
I don't see how this math works out tbh. Mara needs to focus AA on BW to prevent R&D. This is by far more important then draining tanks, this means that if a WB have 4 Maras, there would be 1 attack that have a chance to drain the tanks every gcd. The tanks should be at a combination of parry and block that would significant reduce the attack to hit you in the first place. So, are Order tanks no longer speccing for avoidance or what the hell is goin on?

There might be something wrong with the tactic if this thing trigger as often as people insinuate tbh. Is it triggering on attack instead of hit perhaps?

[Manatikik]

Much whinery about Maras draining tanks here.
I don't see how this math works out tbh. Mara needs to focus AA on BW to prevent R&D. This is by far more important then draining tanks, this means that if a WB have 4 Maras, there would be 1 attack that have a chance to drain the tanks every gcd. The tanks should be at a combination of parry and block that would significant reduce the attack to hit you in the first place. So, are Order tanks no longer speccing for avoidance or what the hell is goin on?

There might be something wrong with the tactic if this thing trigger as often as people insinuate tbh. Is it triggering on attack instead of hit perhaps?

Eh it’s pretty rough. Even one mara can mess with your whole set up. Another thing you also have to remember is that morale bombs work because it’s a concerted effort - if some people can’t do it it delays damage and/or you can’t hit the critical mass you need and the enemy can just absorb it and stabilize too easily.

Nice thing about city though is that it’s pop capped so you can try and build around it in ways you can’t in ORvR but idk how that will work out since I’m just a scrub SW.

[heybaws]

Problem is not in drain itself, but in combination of drain and huge morale drop advantage: not only destro can keep order warbands at 0 morale, their (destro) morale drop is also significantly stronger due to tanks selfpump and 1200 insta morale damage. Like convexte stated, destro can drop about 14k morale damage in 1 spot, which is ridiculous. Nobody in game can stack that amount of wounds, not to say that in order to do such incredible morale drops you dont have to gimp your warband build, its basically what average organised warband on destro can pull out. This is the issue i think. If noone wants to nerf mara, which is understandable since drain is the main reason of having them in wb, then maybe we can look at destro insta damage morales? Maybe make blork m3 do less damage, or remove self pump they have.

[Aurandilaz]

Much whinery about Maras draining tanks here.
I don't see how this math works out tbh. Mara needs to focus AA on BW to prevent R&D. This is by far more important then draining tanks, this means that if a WB have 4 Maras, there would be 1 attack that have a chance to drain the tanks every gcd. The tanks should be at a combination of parry and block that would significant reduce the attack to hit you in the first place. So, are Order tanks no longer speccing for avoidance or what the hell is goin on?

There might be something wrong with the tactic if this thing trigger as often as people insinuate tbh. Is it triggering on attack instead of hit perhaps?

Pretty sure the text indicates its on "hit" (not on DMG) but again hard to tell, at least they fixed napalm + throw axes removing morales through walls lol.
Also, Wrecking Ball is 7 AoE hits in 3s, that is enough to drain 1500 morale if every hit procs the drain. Whereas to build morale with currently slow nerfed morale (20?-24? from old 36), to reach 1500 you need like +70 sec?
You really just need 1 mara to delay the morale drop by 20-40s, and +2 maras is enough to PREVENT the enemy morale from reaching M2.

I'm not advocating for total nerf, since we will eventually go probably back to destro when the zergtide turns, but its very powerful as it is now in cities. The question is, from a balance point, would it be justified to need 2-3 maras to dominate morale gameplay, or is it justified to just need 1 mara to win the morale gameplay in cities? The class is packed with shitton of other utility, so some change to the proc rate or the 225 drain rate might be "ok", but again depends on what our devs have in mind when it comes to figuring out endgame morale balancing.