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Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#51 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:01 pm

Akilinus wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:19 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:38 am
I think that is correct that the sets for 6vs6 are from party-size content like dungeons, and that large scale sets come from cities. Can't see the complaining when the people of this thread don't actually want to play 24vs24 fights but scenarios.
What makes you think that the offensive sets are only used for 6v6?
The full thread that I have the patience to read and where it's the only recurring argument? If people are saying, since opening post, that they aren't balanced for 6vs6, and the very few that come from large scale are mostly fine, then there is a clear trend. I come from large scale and I see the set as a perfect fit for an offensive spec.
WarKan666 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:36 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:38 am
I think that is correct that the sets for 6vs6 are from party-size content like dungeons, and that large scale sets come from cities. Can't see the complaining when the people of this thread don't actually want to play 24vs24 fights but scenarios.
If you'd actually play a dpsassist tank you would know they can have their place in 24v24+
anything over 3-4 wbs without crossguard and brained heals will obv melt you.
I'm gonna hard pass in this line of argumentation. If you are the guarded person, you are a DPS and no longer a true tank. If you need 2 characters to match the survivability of a single one, you aren't meant for large scale. If you need to xguard to be on the line, I would rather have another pure damage dealer.

To both posts: In small scale, sure, go crazy and drop everything you want/need in dmg. I really am a bad player in small scale. By contrast you are not used to the bread and butter of 24vs24, where you are going to face 8-10 characters focusing your ass. In large scale you really need toughness, like really. In the long term what you want for large scale offensive tanks is: Red to be crit, parry/disrupt/dodge with priority for parry, toughness, strength and weapon skill. Toughness becomes more and more valuable the more and more people hitting you, cause is a lovely reduction to damage across the board. I'm gonna jump here, but I assume that in 6vs6 the best way to reduce enemy dps on you is killing one dd which worth 50% of their offensive power, so adding damage from tanks seems reasonable both from an offensive and a defensive point of view, so you don't lose that huge amount of damage for the loss of one character. Not how it works in large scale. In large you need the pressure to tear down a lot of people fast for them to not be able to be rezzed again in time, while tanks try to soak the damage surfing the storm.
Spoiler:

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Akilinus
Posts: 306

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#52 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:42 pm

I do 6vX in full dominator on my bg. I dont feel like the toughness would improve anything.
If you want to be in the zerg you got your deftard set that you can use instead.
Kkomrade 80 Zealot Akilinuz 75 Chosen
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Chinesehero
Legacy RR80
Posts: 885

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#53 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:46 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:14 pm
Chinesehero wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:18 am
anarchypark wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:54 am
maybe it's somewhere between dps and hybrid. 3/5 dps, 2/5 hybrid.
anyway, WoDS SM need ap. WS is parry bonus.
so everything seems bad or wrong if you think your build is only build.
fix that error and you can see bigger picture.
100WS add 0.5% parry, do u think this is useful??? and SM dont need armor penetration for all spirit dmg

yep i'll take 0.5 parry for my parry build.
ofc after prior stats filled first.
500 WS add 5% parry? u can get more from other 500 stats

Chinesehero
Legacy RR80
Posts: 885

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#54 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:55 pm

for spirit dmg tank, str and crit is the most important. the toughness is 2nd, and ini 3rd. other stats like WS is useless
ofc if u are physical dmg tank , WS can increase ur armor penetration and small scale parry %. And this is not bad stats for it. and relatively it can be compare with str.

I hope the dev can take care the stats of SM since SM is a normal magic dmg melee and never use WS as his main stats

jhwieser
Posts: 40

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#55 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:01 pm

I was holding out hope that when the mastery bonuses were added we might see some stat changes but that doesn't seem to be the case.

@any dev - are any of the suggestions in this thread being considered or are the stats essentially "locked"?

I just want to know whether I should hold out hope or not. Thanks again for the hard work! Very happy to see you've got masteries working.

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 6562
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Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#56 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:37 pm

jhwieser wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:01 pm
I was holding out hope that when the mastery bonuses were added we might see some stat changes but that doesn't seem to be the case.

@any dev - are any of the suggestions in this thread being considered or are the stats essentially "locked"?

I just want to know whether I should hold out hope or not. Thanks again for the hard work! Very happy to see you've got masteries working.
Stats aren't locked at all. Masteries were something extensively tested to make sure there weren't any shenanigans and added in when ready. That's all.
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Illuminati
Posts: 172

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#57 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:50 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:37 pm
jhwieser wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:01 pm
I was holding out hope that when the mastery bonuses were added we might see some stat changes but that doesn't seem to be the case.

@any dev - are any of the suggestions in this thread being considered or are the stats essentially "locked"?

I just want to know whether I should hold out hope or not. Thanks again for the hard work! Very happy to see you've got masteries working.
Starts aren't locked at all. Masteries were something extensively tested to make sure there weren't any shenanigans and added in when ready. That's all.
Thank you! Appreciate the response and looking forward to some +1 focused attention on the Chosen stats.
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WarKan666
Posts: 11

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#58 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:25 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:37 pm
jhwieser wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:01 pm
I was holding out hope that when the mastery bonuses were added we might see some stat changes but that doesn't seem to be the case.

@any dev - are any of the suggestions in this thread being considered or are the stats essentially "locked"?

I just want to know whether I should hold out hope or not. Thanks again for the hard work! Very happy to see you've got masteries working.
Stats aren't locked at all. Masteries were something extensively tested to make sure there weren't any shenanigans and added in when ready. That's all.
Then please change something! There is no use for 2 wierdish brawler 2hand gears, also putting Deatunt on Warlord after the Balanced™ Tauntprocc is prolly not a wise decision tbh.

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
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Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#59 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:46 pm

WarKan666 wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:25 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:37 pm
jhwieser wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:01 pm
I was holding out hope that when the mastery bonuses were added we might see some stat changes but that doesn't seem to be the case.

@any dev - are any of the suggestions in this thread being considered or are the stats essentially "locked"?

I just want to know whether I should hold out hope or not. Thanks again for the hard work! Very happy to see you've got masteries working.
Stats aren't locked at all. Masteries were something extensively tested to make sure there weren't any shenanigans and added in when ready. That's all.
Then please change something! There is no use for 2 wierdish brawler 2hand gears, also putting Deatunt on Warlord after the Balanced™ Tauntprocc is prolly not a wise decision tbh.
Change what? Don't just take a piss. Maybe try constructive criticism. You know, the thing that provides actual feedback and garners respect among the people feeding you candy.
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

WarKan666
Posts: 11

Re: Tank Offensive Sovereign Feedback

Post#60 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:37 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:46 pm
WarKan666 wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:25 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:37 pm


Stats aren't locked at all. Masteries were something extensively tested to make sure there weren't any shenanigans and added in when ready. That's all.
Then please change something! There is no use for 2 wierdish brawler 2hand gears, also putting Deatunt on Warlord after the Balanced™ Tauntprocc is prolly not a wise decision tbh.
Change what? Don't just take a piss. Maybe try constructive criticism. You know, the thing that provides actual feedback and garners respect among the people feeding you candy.
Sure

First of all I advise to split up the Sovereign/Warlord level gear into the 3 mirror archetypes of tanks as they all have different needs for their general playstyle. I am very aware that it is ALOT more work to do but in my opinion it is very needed to actually balance these out. I'd say a lot of Higher Tier™ players would love to have a word in this matter.

I also talk from Brawler Tree Blackorc point of view with Solo/Duo/Trio Roam, Scenarios, 6 Man (once every full moon :^)), Smallscale RvR and Single Roaming Warbands (also rarely). With City being a very fun experience, thumbs up there.

1. The Offensive Sovereign needs a lot of work. The Set Boni are mostly good except the 2 Toughest Mastery points on the 6 Piece, they need to be Brawler or Boss at least to make the bonus even closely to be wanted. There is nothing you want from the Toughest tree as Brawler Blackorc even for the extra damage and "utility", it is a minor boost at least. The 7 Piece Strikethrough is also okay but nothing too special. Statwise it needs to be basically Bloodlord 2.0 with mostly usefull stats as the OG Bloodlord. The Toughness on it doesn't help at all, you should convert most of it to Strength, Weaponskill,Wounds and Initative in that weight order. For the % based stats its also meager, 2% Parry/Dodge/Disurpt is not viable at all it should be atleast 6% to 8% Parry + the 2% Dodge/Disrupt. The 4 Morale/s is also a minor boost aswell, the 2 AP/s on hands is also not needed, convert it to Parry or Crit . 8hp4 is also an interesting choice to say the least.

It needs it to be ALOT more aggressive to even bother with it. In the end the best choice at the moment is probably 3 Warlord and the rest Offensive Sovereign as this gets you closely to bloodlordish Stats and terms of actual damage output without any new weapon to boost the 15% increased critical damage. With increased survivability though due to naturally high armor and resists, the Toughness doesn't help a lot there as Wounds and Iniative give you alot more in smallscale.

2. Move ALL the Toughness to the Warlord set as it seems to be the Choice for the 2 Hand Boss tree Blackorc and you can happily dive into the Zerg or whatever these guys do im not sure.
I am very skeptical on the Detaunt procc as the Taunt procc from Dominator set already is too strong for its own good, but we will see how it plays out.

Get someone who actually loves the playsytle to give you their opinion here.

3. The main Sovereign is good 8/10. I probably have it grinded in 2033 at this rate.

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