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oil respawn timer suggestion

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#1 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:26 pm

Hi there,

In my humble opinion, the respawn timer of oil during sieges could be lengthened so that the oil doesnt appear again as fast, and hopefully can be used only once per door, punishing only attacks that are ineffcient or without a proper amount of attackers.

Both as an attacker and as a defender, especially when I'm playing all but ranged dd classes, the (for me) excessive presence and preponderance of the oil is annoying. It makes sieges protracted and boring, especially on numerous ocasions when players are short on playing time. Plus, even acknowledging that oil has a historical basis and is appropriate both as ambientation and mechanic, it shouldnt have such importance in a siege. After all, it is scarcely more than a gimmick, and requires little skill for its use (timing mostly, but no real fighting ability that relies on game controls, specs, etc)

I was curious to know your opinions on the matter. Thanks for your attention.

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Natherul
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Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#2 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:18 pm

Oil is a perfect tool to defend a keep and zones fall way too fast in many cases as it is. Not to mention Oil is the one siege weapon that is depleted on use meaning someone has to buy a oil item each time its deployed.

This is not going to change.

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#3 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:52 pm

I really dislike oil, and the massive damage it does now is the cheesiest of ways to get a couple free kills on the ram runners.

The one upside that i do enjoy is that when oil is up, attacking RDPS suddenly have to focus on something else for a bit, and an outnumbered defender can use this time to push out the sides and get into some fun fights on both sides while the attackers are distracted some. makes keep fights more entertaining if defenders have some good leadership and coordination.
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

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Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#4 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:13 pm

Natherul wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:18 pm Oil is a perfect tool to defend a keep and zones fall way too fast in many cases as it is. Not to mention Oil is the one siege weapon that is depleted on use meaning someone has to buy a oil item each time its deployed.

This is not going to change.
While I strongly disagree with the OP, I would like to remind that there are several keeps which oil placement is off somehow and can't be properly attacked, making assaults on them a suicide unless that there are overwhelming numbers. To name the most infamous: Southern Garrison, Karak Karag, and BadMoon Hole. With the current state of oil, these are simply chocke points for the realm being zerged. If the underdog has to attack one of these LoS troubles, is normally over. Many people would argue that you may be lucky next time and get that same keep while being the underdog, and that is 100% true, but I don't think this was a by-design balance, and that's why I bring it on.

Increasing the cooldown is not a point. A well coordinated attack and defence means 2-3 oils max, and I can't see the problem with that being ~15mins. But maybe in these bugged keeps the health pool of the oil could be tuned down, or even made it dependant in something (AAO, number of BOs under the realm control,... you name it), cause it's kind of silly right now to see people trying to jump to DoT the oil, and the locations to do so are so narrow that is also a camping fest for defenders.

Just my 2cents (<---it's a song).
Spoiler:

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Natherul
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Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#5 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm

Ototo wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:13 pm
Natherul wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:18 pm Oil is a perfect tool to defend a keep and zones fall way too fast in many cases as it is. Not to mention Oil is the one siege weapon that is depleted on use meaning someone has to buy a oil item each time its deployed.

This is not going to change.
While I strongly disagree with the OP, I would like to remind that there are several keeps which oil placement is off somehow and can't be properly attacked, making assaults on them a suicide unless that there are overwhelming numbers. To name the most infamous: Southern Garrison, Karak Karag, and BadMoon Hole. With the current state of oil, these are simply chocke points for the realm being zerged. If the underdog has to attack one of these LoS troubles, is normally over. Many people would argue that you may be lucky next time and get that same keep while being the underdog, and that is 100% true, but I don't think this was a by-design balance, and that's why I bring it on.

Increasing the cooldown is not a point. A well coordinated attack and defence means 2-3 oils max, and I can't see the problem with that being ~15mins. But maybe in these bugged keeps the health pool of the oil could be tuned down, or even made it dependant in something (AAO, number of BOs under the realm control,... you name it), cause it's kind of silly right now to see people trying to jump to DoT the oil, and the locations to do so are so narrow that is also a camping fest for defenders.

Just my 2cents (<---it's a song).
Agreed, I dont like the keep where the oils cant be properly attacked. But increasing CD of oils as you said is not a solution to this. Remind me though is the issue cant see target or target out of range?

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Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#6 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm

Natherul wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:13 pm
Natherul wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:18 pm Oil is a perfect tool to defend a keep and zones fall way too fast in many cases as it is. Not to mention Oil is the one siege weapon that is depleted on use meaning someone has to buy a oil item each time its deployed.

This is not going to change.
While I strongly disagree with the OP, I would like to remind that there are several keeps which oil placement is off somehow and can't be properly attacked, making assaults on them a suicide unless that there are overwhelming numbers. To name the most infamous: Southern Garrison, Karak Karag, and BadMoon Hole. With the current state of oil, these are simply chocke points for the realm being zerged. If the underdog has to attack one of these LoS troubles, is normally over. Many people would argue that you may be lucky next time and get that same keep while being the underdog, and that is 100% true, but I don't think this was a by-design balance, and that's why I bring it on.

Increasing the cooldown is not a point. A well coordinated attack and defence means 2-3 oils max, and I can't see the problem with that being ~15mins. But maybe in these bugged keeps the health pool of the oil could be tuned down, or even made it dependant in something (AAO, number of BOs under the realm control,... you name it), cause it's kind of silly right now to see people trying to jump to DoT the oil, and the locations to do so are so narrow that is also a camping fest for defenders.

Just my 2cents (<---it's a song).
Agreed, I dont like the keep where the oils cant be properly attacked. But increasing CD of oils as you said is not a solution to this. Remind me though is the issue cant see target or target out of range?
The issue seems to be that they can't be seen from the ground while you clearly have the range to reach them. In this thread the location in Southern Garrison can be seen. Also this bugtracker for Karak Karag while you were still working on forts/cities and oil was not a huge trouble, so got rightfully pending then. I can't find the Badmoon Hole nor the Gnol Baraz, but also happens in these two.
Spoiler:

emiliorv
Suspended
Posts: 1295

Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#7 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:07 pm

Natherul wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm

Agreed, I dont like the keep where the oils cant be properly attacked. But increasing CD of oils as you said is not a solution to this. Remind me though is the issue cant see target or target out of range?
Seems like its a LOS issue, check this post: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=33350&p=375535&hil ... on#p375535

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Natherul
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Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#8 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:10 pm

could soemone please make a bugtracker ticket with all such keeps listed and I can work on those particular ones and see if I can solve them. All in one big ticket instead of many small ones in this case please as its the same issue

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#9 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:14 pm

All those oil spots are bugged and dont have line of sight. I wish more stealth and mdps classes would pick the lock and run up and hit oil, as melee damage does way more than ranged damage to siege. It would noticeably shorten oil duration with a bit of coordination. Pugs be pugs, though...
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

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Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: oil respawn timer suggestion

Post#10 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:04 pm

Natherul wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:10 pm could soemone please make a bugtracker ticket with all such keeps listed and I can work on those particular ones and see if I can solve them. All in one big ticket instead of many small ones in this case please as its the same issue
Hope this helps. These are the ones that I remember: https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/15675
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