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i dont have issues whit disrupts since im near soft cap bytheway,
my point is
a) there are lots of ways to hit int softcap, your own gear preferences aint mean that class have an issue with it. Minmaxing is always sacrificing something, on every class. In other words: your initial statement is simply untrue.
b) even if potential tactic would grant 500 int dpszeal still will be meme because his issues is not about int
c)zealot has lots of issue: hes ap hungry, abilities have low damage and scales are bad, mastery trees core design is weird, etc. BUT its cleary not int ussues
Throwing in some raw stats wont fix those issues at all
i dont have issues whit disrupts since im near soft cap bytheway,
my point is
a) there are lots of ways to hit int softcap, your own gear preferences aint mean that class have an issue with it. Minmaxing is always sacrificing something, on every class. In other words: your initial statement is simply untrue.
b) even if potential tactic would grant 500 int dpszeal still will be meme because his issues is not about int
c)zealot has lots of issue: hes ap hungry, abilities have low damage and scales are bad, mastery trees core design is weird, etc. BUT its cleary not int ussues
Throwing in some raw stats wont fix those issues at all
i dont see a lot of way to hit int soft cap, i just tried out what u suggested, i have 1040 int 50 more thougness, same armor and almost same wounds(5 less wounds) 6 more disrupt strike tru and i lost for it 6% crit chance i have 5% chch on me insted of 0 and 50 less magicpower. its not worth it in my opinion since what u bring for ur party is healdbuff which came from criting whit ur abilites and u deal less damage and 5% chch is bad to have.
b) disagree, dps zeal works OK even aganist decent 6man but against high competitive play its not good enugh, u got a lot of pressure and damage but ur squshy, if ur party manage to make a kill before enemy kills u, its a win situation, problem is that ST damage not enough (where u can keep distance) and/or aoe u have to go close and a good party can nuke u before the magic happens for ur party first. 500 int from tatic would be super overkill XD
the way i see:
a) give diviny furry raw intel stat+ so u can be less sgushy in aoe spec
or
b) buff single target abilites damage to make it viable again
retekelek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:51 am
Thats out of topic, from that perspective just remove all AM/Shamy/WP/DoK/Runi/Zealot damage ability becuse they pure role is healing....
the thing is it has a reason that these classes have damage abilites and if u want to play em as their main role feel free to do it, but for peoples that rather have fun playing them whit thier offspec, which are provided in the game whit abilites and tatics, i dont udnerstand what the big deal about that some would like to make em viable to play on this role. And if u want to play em as thier main spec, as healers, also feel free to do it, but why i started this topic is not about that.
It's completely on-topic when a class is asked to overperform it's main role in spite of an specific build. Zealots are 100% viable for every content of the game as healers. The fact that you can switch on/off the willpower to intelligence ratios as in Runepriests only makes this harder to understand. The class has endless punt, 100ft stagger, can switch in the middle of a fight to a completely different role, etc... it's not exactly like if the class doesn't have its advantages.
Never said to remove DPS trees, I just strongly disagree with buffing them when is clearly unnecessary. They are meant for very specific DPS roles and work just fine in them. If you want a class that allows more than one DPS alternative, roll a DPS class instead of a healer class.
retekelek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:51 am
Thats out of topic, from that perspective just remove all AM/Shamy/WP/DoK/Runi/Zealot damage ability becuse they pure role is healing....
the thing is it has a reason that these classes have damage abilites and if u want to play em as their main role feel free to do it, but for peoples that rather have fun playing them whit thier offspec, which are provided in the game whit abilites and tatics, i dont udnerstand what the big deal about that some would like to make em viable to play on this role. And if u want to play em as thier main spec, as healers, also feel free to do it, but why i started this topic is not about that.
It's completely on-topic when a class is asked to overperform it's main role in spite of an specific build. Zealots are 100% viable for every content of the game as healers. The fact that you can switch on/off the willpower to intelligence ratios as in Runepriests only makes this harder to understand. The class has endless punt, 100ft stagger, can switch in the middle of a fight to a completely different role, etc... it's not exactly like if the class doesn't have its advantages.
Never said to remove DPS trees, I just strongly disagree with buffing them when is clearly unnecessary. They are meant for very specific DPS roles and work just fine in them. If you want a class that allows more than one DPS alternative, roll a DPS class instead of a healer class.
i disagree whit you on that one, its underperforming in offspec compared to dok/shamy/am/wp. This topic not about healing perspetcive of this class, and the line u said that they can swich a completly different role is not have a footstep on the ground of reality. To clear this first from healer side, most time u will swich HoD to convert willpoer for Intel is before stagger, if u have the opportunity of the global cooldons to wear off and swich back healing. Otherwise u not gone swich it to have some extrapressure to finish ur party target in a 6vs6 whiout damage tatics, nope, AND while as a healer in a 6vs6 u will be busy enough to not let ur teammates die from the enemy pressure. 1-2 missed hots and gcd swicching back to healing from HoD can result that fatal failure.
And from dps perspetive, like i said alredy realy rarely will u convert ur stats to healing, even in rvr when in a situation when needed to kite u need to be ready to turn when there is an opprtunity to make a kill from overxtending enemys and/or put pressure on them while kiting. Ur healing still be shitty whit high willpower whit damage tatics and no healing tatic on. and u have 20 second CD on HoD to turn back damaging again. so beside ur main class role is healer, as dps spec u not gona do any noticable healing. for example in an sc if u make 100K damage u will have around 0-5k healing, a Choppa or slayer whit heal ability will have more healing than u. thats from my experince how it works, and i tried to experince whit swiching healing time to time, its not working. if u have the dps role in ur party than its already a lost situation if u swich for healing.
my main problem still if u try ST u dont have enough pressure if u try aoe which has enough damage u will be front line and squshy - nota good combo. thats why i started the topic so whit that my problem is not u dont have multiple options for dps, because none of em works good enough.
one more thing endless punts come from aoe spec, stagger comes from ST u cant have em all at once
retekelek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:51 am
Thats out of topic, from that perspective just remove all AM/Shamy/WP/DoK/Runi/Zealot damage ability becuse they pure role is healing....
the thing is it has a reason that these classes have damage abilites and if u want to play em as their main role feel free to do it, but for peoples that rather have fun playing them whit thier offspec, which are provided in the game whit abilites and tatics, i dont udnerstand what the big deal about that some would like to make em viable to play on this role. And if u want to play em as thier main spec, as healers, also feel free to do it, but why i started this topic is not about that.
It's completely on-topic when a class is asked to overperform it's main role in spite of an specific build. Zealots are 100% viable for every content of the game as healers. The fact that you can switch on/off the willpower to intelligence ratios as in Runepriests only makes this harder to understand. The class has endless punt, 100ft stagger, can switch in the middle of a fight to a completely different role, etc... it's not exactly like if the class doesn't have its advantages.
Never said to remove DPS trees, I just strongly disagree with buffing them when is clearly unnecessary. They are meant for very specific DPS roles and work just fine in them. If you want a class that allows more than one DPS alternative, roll a DPS class instead of a healer class.
i disagree whit you on that one, its underperforming in offspec compared to dok/shamy/am/wp. This topic not about healing perspetcive of this class, and the line u said that they can swich a completly different role is not have a footstep on the ground of reality. To clear this first from healer side, most time u will swich HoD to convert willpoer for Intel is before stagger, if u have the opportunity of the global cooldons to wear off and swich back healing. Otherwise u not gone swich it to have some extrapressure to finish ur party target in a 6vs6 whiout damage tatics, nope, AND while as a healer in a 6vs6 u will be busy enough to not let ur teammates die from the enemy pressure. 1-2 missed hots and gcd swicching back to healing from HoD can result that fatal failure.
And from dps perspetive, like i said alredy realy rarely will u convert ur stats to healing, even in rvr when in a situation when needed to kite u need to be ready to turn when there is an opprtunity to make a kill from overxtending enemys and/or put pressure on them while kiting. Ur healing still be shitty whit high willpower whit damage tatics and no healing tatic on. and u have 20 second CD on HoD to turn back damaging again. so beside ur main class role is healer, as dps spec u not gona do any noticable healing. for example in an sc if u make 100K damage u will have around 0-5k healing, a Choppa or slayer whit heal ability will have more healing than u. thats from my experince how it works, and i tried to experince whit swiching healing time to time, its not working. if u have the dps role in ur party than its already a lost situation if u swich for healing.
my main problem still if u try ST u dont have enough pressure if u try aoe which has enough damage u will be front line and squshy - nota good combo. thats why i started the topic so whit that my problem is not u dont have multiple options for dps, because none of em works good enough.
one more thing endless punts come from aoe spec, stagger comes from ST u cant have em all at once
Line one, completely false. Do you even play those classes to have any idea? I honestly think that you have never touched a DPS WP or DPS Sham/AM if you think that those damage specs are better, or more suited to multiple situations, than zealot spec. I suggest that you check this post, or that entire thread for the matter, to understand that each of those DPS specs has a role, period.
Like I literally stopped reading there. WP DPS better than DPS zealot? You are clearly trying to misrepresent the Zeal potential to get the class buffed, over a DPS spec that is clearly underperforming, WP, with zero utility in every situation, either WB, 6v6, solo, scenario, etc... there is not a single RvR situation where a DPS WP will outperform a DPS Zeal, or even perform at all for the matter. And Sham/AM DPS... well, let's not open closed wounds, instead let's say that maybe, just maybe, in 1v1 they can be useful, if you are very good 1v2 is doable. If the enemy has a healer that knows how to press Cleanse, or is class with some skill that will allow them to enter mele with you, the spec is over. Literally zero burst damage, but also very little utility that is either not required, or other better suited for group classes can provide. So entirely useless at 6v6, Warband, etc... and only somehow useful at 1v1, and only versus some classes.
If you ever play those classes, you will discover how damn cheesy is DPS Zeal in fact. Do you want a tank-healer-DPS? Go to play Rift.
It's completely on-topic when a class is asked to overperform it's main role in spite of an specific build. Zealots are 100% viable for every content of the game as healers. The fact that you can switch on/off the willpower to intelligence ratios as in Runepriests only makes this harder to understand. The class has endless punt, 100ft stagger, can switch in the middle of a fight to a completely different role, etc... it's not exactly like if the class doesn't have its advantages.
Never said to remove DPS trees, I just strongly disagree with buffing them when is clearly unnecessary. They are meant for very specific DPS roles and work just fine in them. If you want a class that allows more than one DPS alternative, roll a DPS class instead of a healer class.
i disagree whit you on that one, its underperforming in offspec compared to dok/shamy/am/wp. This topic not about healing perspetcive of this class, and the line u said that they can swich a completly different role is not have a footstep on the ground of reality. To clear this first from healer side, most time u will swich HoD to convert willpoer for Intel is before stagger, if u have the opportunity of the global cooldons to wear off and swich back healing. Otherwise u not gone swich it to have some extrapressure to finish ur party target in a 6vs6 whiout damage tatics, nope, AND while as a healer in a 6vs6 u will be busy enough to not let ur teammates die from the enemy pressure. 1-2 missed hots and gcd swicching back to healing from HoD can result that fatal failure.
And from dps perspetive, like i said alredy realy rarely will u convert ur stats to healing, even in rvr when in a situation when needed to kite u need to be ready to turn when there is an opprtunity to make a kill from overxtending enemys and/or put pressure on them while kiting. Ur healing still be shitty whit high willpower whit damage tatics and no healing tatic on. and u have 20 second CD on HoD to turn back damaging again. so beside ur main class role is healer, as dps spec u not gona do any noticable healing. for example in an sc if u make 100K damage u will have around 0-5k healing, a Choppa or slayer whit heal ability will have more healing than u. thats from my experince how it works, and i tried to experince whit swiching healing time to time, its not working. if u have the dps role in ur party than its already a lost situation if u swich for healing.
my main problem still if u try ST u dont have enough pressure if u try aoe which has enough damage u will be front line and squshy - nota good combo. thats why i started the topic so whit that my problem is not u dont have multiple options for dps, because none of em works good enough.
one more thing endless punts come from aoe spec, stagger comes from ST u cant have em all at once
Line one, completely false. Do you even play those classes to have any idea? I honestly think that you have never touched a DPS WP or DPS Sham/AM if you think that those damage specs are better, or more suited to multiple situations, than zealot spec. I suggest that you check this post, or that entire thread for the matter, to understand that each of those DPS specs has a role, period.
Like I literally stopped reading there. WP DPS better than DPS zealot? You are clearly trying to misrepresent the Zeal potential to get the class buffed, over a DPS spec that is clearly underperforming, WP, with zero utility in every situation, either WB, 6v6, solo, scenario, etc... there is not a single RvR situation where a DPS WP will outperform a DPS Zeal, or even perform at all for the matter. And Sham/AM DPS... well, let's not open closed wounds, instead let's say that maybe, just maybe, in 1v1 they can be useful, if you are very good 1v2 is doable. If the enemy has a healer that knows how to press Cleanse, or is class with some skill that will allow them to enter mele with you, the spec is over. Literally zero burst damage, but also very little utility that is either not required, or other better suited for group classes can provide. So entirely useless at 6v6, Warband, etc... and only somehow useful at 1v1, and only versus some classes.
If you ever play those classes, you will discover how damn cheesy is DPS Zeal in fact. Do you want a tank-healer-DPS? Go to play Rift.
not much to say if u didnt even read what i wrote.
i have beside Am a dok and shamy and wp but aint playing em for long time now, my rating comes from what players i play whit and against and i see how they perform. Thats true and i take back that WP is better than zeal because is also under performing as i know compered to DoK but there still a few geared wp-s that playing in 6man. But shamy dok and AM deffenetly better. Same gear and RR as i have all these 3 are viable in specific party compositions (just like zeal, if u want to do something whit it u need a synerging team setup)
also dont overdramatise what suggested the divine furry raw intel gain 100-160 will free u like 3-6 and or 10-20 rr which wont going to make u tanky as a tank u wont going to even near to a actual mele dps thoughness just a bit less squshy than atm now.
retekelek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:06 pm
i disagree whit you on that one, its underperforming in offspec compared to dok/shamy/am/wp. This topic not about healing perspetcive of this class, and the line u said that they can swich a completly different role is not have a footstep on the ground of reality. To clear this first from healer side, most time u will swich HoD to convert willpoer for Intel is before stagger, if u have the opportunity of the global cooldons to wear off and swich back healing. Otherwise u not gone swich it to have some extrapressure to finish ur party target in a 6vs6 whiout damage tatics, nope, AND while as a healer in a 6vs6 u will be busy enough to not let ur teammates die from the enemy pressure. 1-2 missed hots and gcd swicching back to healing from HoD can result that fatal failure.
And from dps perspetive, like i said alredy realy rarely will u convert ur stats to healing, even in rvr when in a situation when needed to kite u need to be ready to turn when there is an opprtunity to make a kill from overxtending enemys and/or put pressure on them while kiting. Ur healing still be shitty whit high willpower whit damage tatics and no healing tatic on. and u have 20 second CD on HoD to turn back damaging again. so beside ur main class role is healer, as dps spec u not gona do any noticable healing. for example in an sc if u make 100K damage u will have around 0-5k healing, a Choppa or slayer whit heal ability will have more healing than u. thats from my experince how it works, and i tried to experince whit swiching healing time to time, its not working. if u have the dps role in ur party than its already a lost situation if u swich for healing.
my main problem still if u try ST u dont have enough pressure if u try aoe which has enough damage u will be front line and squshy - nota good combo. thats why i started the topic so whit that my problem is not u dont have multiple options for dps, because none of em works good enough.
one more thing endless punts come from aoe spec, stagger comes from ST u cant have em all at once
Line one, completely false. Do you even play those classes to have any idea? I honestly think that you have never touched a DPS WP or DPS Sham/AM if you think that those damage specs are better, or more suited to multiple situations, than zealot spec. I suggest that you check this post, or that entire thread for the matter, to understand that each of those DPS specs has a role, period.
Like I literally stopped reading there. WP DPS better than DPS zealot? You are clearly trying to misrepresent the Zeal potential to get the class buffed, over a DPS spec that is clearly underperforming, WP, with zero utility in every situation, either WB, 6v6, solo, scenario, etc... there is not a single RvR situation where a DPS WP will outperform a DPS Zeal, or even perform at all for the matter. And Sham/AM DPS... well, let's not open closed wounds, instead let's say that maybe, just maybe, in 1v1 they can be useful, if you are very good 1v2 is doable. If the enemy has a healer that knows how to press Cleanse, or is class with some skill that will allow them to enter mele with you, the spec is over. Literally zero burst damage, but also very little utility that is either not required, or other better suited for group classes can provide. So entirely useless at 6v6, Warband, etc... and only somehow useful at 1v1, and only versus some classes.
If you ever play those classes, you will discover how damn cheesy is DPS Zeal in fact. Do you want a tank-healer-DPS? Go to play Rift.
not much to say if u didnt even read what i wrote.
i have beside Am a dok and shamy and wp but aint playing em for long time now, my rating comes from what players i play whit and against and i see how they perform. Thats true and i take back that WP is better than zeal because is also under performing as i know compered to DoK but there still a few geared wp-s that playing in 6man. But shamy dok and AM deffenetly better. Same gear and RR as i have all these 3 are viable in specific party compositions (just like zeal, if u want to do something whit it u need a synerging team setup)
also dont overdramatise what suggested the divine furry raw intel gain 100-160 will free u like 3-6 and or 10-20 rr which wont going to make u tanky as a tank u wont going to even near to a actual mele dps thoughness just a bit less squshy than atm now.
Again minimizing, again whining over classes that have A LOT more reasons to whine than yours, again trying to misrepresent, etc... this will be my last comment here. For what it matters to me, this thread is closed.
It's a lot and you know it. It's equivalent to most talismans in your gear. So, yeah, let's say that you don't want your healer to be a front line fighter, let's say that you want to be handed free talisman slots for it.
If you are so sure that mele DPSs are more durable than DPS zeal without a huge expenditure in def stats, please, go play one 1st, speak later. And if you try to call the "but they do more damage", remember that they can't heal, nor have any other possible spec than DPS.
This entire thread is a huge "give me, give me" for a class that actually has it way better than others.
Line one, completely false. Do you even play those classes to have any idea? I honestly think that you have never touched a DPS WP or DPS Sham/AM if you think that those damage specs are better, or more suited to multiple situations, than zealot spec. I suggest that you check this post, or that entire thread for the matter, to understand that each of those DPS specs has a role, period.
Like I literally stopped reading there. WP DPS better than DPS zealot? You are clearly trying to misrepresent the Zeal potential to get the class buffed, over a DPS spec that is clearly underperforming, WP, with zero utility in every situation, either WB, 6v6, solo, scenario, etc... there is not a single RvR situation where a DPS WP will outperform a DPS Zeal, or even perform at all for the matter. And Sham/AM DPS... well, let's not open closed wounds, instead let's say that maybe, just maybe, in 1v1 they can be useful, if you are very good 1v2 is doable. If the enemy has a healer that knows how to press Cleanse, or is class with some skill that will allow them to enter mele with you, the spec is over. Literally zero burst damage, but also very little utility that is either not required, or other better suited for group classes can provide. So entirely useless at 6v6, Warband, etc... and only somehow useful at 1v1, and only versus some classes.
If you ever play those classes, you will discover how damn cheesy is DPS Zeal in fact. Do you want a tank-healer-DPS? Go to play Rift.
not much to say if u didnt even read what i wrote.
i have beside Am a dok and shamy and wp but aint playing em for long time now, my rating comes from what players i play whit and against and i see how they perform. Thats true and i take back that WP is better than zeal because is also under performing as i know compered to DoK but there still a few geared wp-s that playing in 6man. But shamy dok and AM deffenetly better. Same gear and RR as i have all these 3 are viable in specific party compositions (just like zeal, if u want to do something whit it u need a synerging team setup)
also dont overdramatise what suggested the divine furry raw intel gain 100-160 will free u like 3-6 and or 10-20 rr which wont going to make u tanky as a tank u wont going to even near to a actual mele dps thoughness just a bit less squshy than atm now.
Again minimizing, again whining over classes that have A LOT more reasons to whine than yours, again trying to misrepresent, etc... this will be my last comment here. For what it matters to me, this thread is closed.
It's a lot and you know it. It's equivalent to most talismans in your gear. So, yeah, let's say that you don't want your healer to be a front line fighter, let's say that you want to be handed free talisman slots for it.
If you are so sure that mele DPSs are more durable than DPS zeal without a huge expenditure in def stats, please, go play one 1st, speak later. And if you try to call the "but they do more damage", remember that they can't heal, nor have any other possible spec than DPS.
This entire thread is a huge "give me, give me" for a class that actually has it way better than others.
Thats whining, thats somthing aint working and i suggest soem change on it? wtf
man if u play dps zealot ur NOT a healer, just understand that. in aoe spec u dont want to be a frontline fighter, u HAVE to, since ur ability ranges are close - deamon splittle 40 tahts ur armor/corp resist debuff, what u want on before u drop chaoitc agitation, also winds of insanty absulutly close range.
man i do, i play dps zealot, and i also have not BIS max rr but deffently geared mara. maybe ur the one that aint know what are u talking about. same gear+rr mele sqiggy, dok, mara, choppa even welf has better survability = more wounds/thoguness/armor and last but defenetly not least PARRY
aint talked about they got more damage, they should have since the few other things zeal can provide, which i already wrote.
And who cares they cant spec other role??? thats out of topic, in a 6man if u join as a DPS DoK, u wont going to respec ur masteris and slot heal tatics and gear and rr in the middle of the sc or rvr zone.
I think u still missed my problem whit the class actually which is
A) buff ST damage to make that viable for 6man OR
B) make aoe spec more viable for 6man whit give raw intel to dps tactic so u can be a bit more tanky (still not even close to a mele dps, if u really want it i can write numbers to prove that)
thats jsut not true, i started whit comprasion to sorc def gear which is not needed to be front liner... wtf
retekelek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:03 am
1. u will often find yourself in situations, where u want to kill healers, so at that time u dont want to see this "disrupt disrupt disrupt"
2. dont think theres other way for it, but main reason is point 1.
3. yeah thats what u make usefull in the party. Whit aoe spec=lot of pressure but since i wrote u need to be frontline and agaisnt a good premade its not gone work out well and ST aint has enough extra kick to make the kill happen.
4. its really usefull in roaming and good in 6v6 still u need ST spec to have it and reason u not ST is in point 3.
1. Will doesn't adds all that much disrupt- don't remember the formula, but that extra 100 intel adds something like 2% or less less disrupt from will. Would loose some intel, and gain -%less to be disrupted instead.
2. Obvious one is crit- would max it. Also might be worth experimenting with Waves of Chaos instead of Scourged Warping- not sure for how much it hits in RoR (only had a dps zealot on live), but its a proc so should ignore toughness mitigation. Also, you are probably using Tzeench's Talon?
And also- you abilities dmg scales with points in tree. Try maxing Alchemy out- 15 points up- even without taking the m4.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."
retekelek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:03 am
1. u will often find yourself in situations, where u want to kill healers, so at that time u dont want to see this "disrupt disrupt disrupt"
2. dont think theres other way for it, but main reason is point 1.
3. yeah thats what u make usefull in the party. Whit aoe spec=lot of pressure but since i wrote u need to be frontline and agaisnt a good premade its not gone work out well and ST aint has enough extra kick to make the kill happen.
4. its really usefull in roaming and good in 6v6 still u need ST spec to have it and reason u not ST is in point 3.
1. Will doesn't adds all that much disrupt- don't remember the formula, but that extra 100 intel adds something like 2% or less less disrupt from will. Would loose some intel, and gain -%less to be disrupted instead.
2. Obvious one is crit- would max it. Also might be worth experimenting with Waves of Chaos instead of Scourged Warping- not sure for how much it hits in RoR (only had a dps zealot on live), but its a proc so should ignore toughness mitigation. Also, you are probably using Tzeench's Talon?
And also- you abilities dmg scales with points in tree. Try maxing Alchemy out- 15 points up- even without taking the m4.
yeah problem is if u try get more disrupt strike tru from oppressor hand and head item u will need to change completly gear setup ending whit u looseing 2crit chance and 60 wounds and 5% chrit chance on u insted of 0 or 6 crit minus and chance 5 chch on u still.
waves of chaos if for wb-s play i slot that insted of scoruged wrapping becuse it has crap damage but it can crit and can aplly healdebuff which usefull in keep or other fighting situitons where enemy stationary on a spot (its range is pretty small aslo, and if they move from it 30 sec cd before u can put an other down, but still more worth it than heaving more single target damage in wb scale) but for 6man dont use that
yeah thzeench talon is a badass morale whitout question
for single target i take up to point 14 whit stagger, headebuff tatic, boon of tzeench ap ritual chaotic force, and rest is on middle up to storm of ravens
u wont going to even near to a actual mele dps thoughness just a bit less squshy than atm now.
