DPS Zealot BUFF

[Ototo]

Spoiler:

It utterly boggles my mind that an actual player has said this

I was flabbergasted when the devs said it but I’ve given up trying to make sense of some of their decisions

But a player? On what grounds can you honestly say this? That not every class has to be viable for every level of play when you got classes like marauder that’s great for every type of content at every level of play vs another class that you invest just as long in to grind out renown and gear only to be told “no your class want special enough for arbitrary reasons so you suck and are undesirable for this type of play too bad”

Some type of warning should be put on character creation then

Maybe I agree with the choices of the devs to restore the idea of the game that Mythic had? Idk, like crazy idea. Same that I don't expect that a heal spec SM turns into an actual healer. You specced it and that is fine, but don't expect my support to give the class actual active healing skills.

The rest is some kind of twisted way to turn my words to sound like "I don't want new players here". I have such the opposite idea that I normally go to the starting zones and gift away a lot of items, talis, pots, etc... But no, I hate new players cause I think that healers are to heal, DPSs to dd and tanks to withstand it. Or to sound like I have no empathy for the situation. I must have a very corrupted mind to think such ideas... Probably better to quarantine me. How dare I say to a person that ranked a healer class that is not my idea of game play to make it good for all DPS situations. You are both right. Zealots should be rewarded with a pure DPS tree once they hit rr80. Healing on a healer class? That's for noobs....

Completely missed the point of what I was saying nor did I say you “hate new players”

My question to you was specifically why should some classes be non viable at all levels of play when there are classes in this game viable at every level of play

and no the devs are not “restoring the idea of the game mythic had”, RoR has long since deviated from it

Sure, why not? I always wanted to heal in my KotBS. My proposal is that instead of Focused Mending adding healing percentage, when equipped it transforms Perseverance in a group healing. Also DON'T YOU FREAKING DARE TO NERF THE DEFENSE VALUE, just add the healing on top of it. Group heal.

[Gangan]

Please try to stay on topic for once

(...)
And the only plus u can offer from dps healer class compered to a pure dps is cleanse, (...)

don't forget the rez... heal-dps often tend to forget they still can rez

[retekelek]

The real issue with ST DPS Zealot is a lack of a proper dps kit and low overall damage numbers (as you've identified).

Zealot/RP are the closest to a pure healer the game has. You have to spend mastery points to unlock offensive abilities AM/Shaman get as part of their core, and even then you can only access a few of them (and Zealot can't spec into a lifetap DoT like RP can, and their version of the lifetap nuke has a cooldown...) OFC, DPS healers shouldn't be putting out comparable damage to true RDPS, but even when compared to Shaman/AM, Zealot/RP damage potential feels very low--though I have to admit that is based on observation, as I don't have a Shaman/AM.

It could be argued that Zealot/RP are compensated for this by having other tools--flash heal, the Mark buffs and Rituals, a 6 second stagger, etc. And the ability to swap out of Harbinger/Rune of Breaking to heal, but with Divine Fury and no heal tactics/renown points, the heals are still surprisingly poor in spite of the huge amount of willpower.

Anyway, I would love to play a Dwarven caster (or a Chaos caster that isn't glued to a disc) and would gladly slot a tactic that locked out healing abilities in exchange for competitive damage. But I'm 99% certain that the viability of ST ZPS isn't remotely close to making the list of balance considerations.

as before the damage nerf on zealots i played single target spec whit maras and sorc mainly because maras could slot out healdbuff tatic and go full buthcer mode because u provide the healdebuff, and whit ur damage which was lower than ur pure dps, still was enough to secure the kill, atm its not enough in high compatitive play.

for that reason i never used life tap whit transference tatic in a 6man, because u need other offfensive tatics instead that, and also healing from that is still really fluffy, just cant afford to use it.

u need divine furry, scouregd wrapping, chaotic force and healdebuff tatic to provide enough damage, which is your role. DoK/WP can make out some extra healing, and AM/Shaman has ok heals even on dps spec because of their class mechaninc but in a 6man like i said really really rarely u will do any healing, u provide cleanse for ur party whats beyond a pure dps class.
well true, you also have rituals, but flash heal is a joke whit 200 willpower and 20% less healing because divine furry, and marks are like sorc/bw also gives ur party buffs, or DoK/WP or AM/Shamy and they have lot of damage/burst compered to dps zeal. And also u provide stagger which cant have on aoe spec but on single target its a must have.

I also dont think we should have same damage and burst output like a pure dps, but atm it under where its enough to be viable. if tzeench cry and scourged wrap would get damage buff, and single target would be good again in 6man, than i wouldnt mind if aoe spec stays for wb-s

also i dont have Runi so cant speak for em, but probabily they have similar issues

[retekelek]

Please try to stay on topic for once

(...)
And the only plus u can offer from dps healer class compered to a pure dps is cleanse, (...)

don't forget the rez... heal-dps often tend to forget they still can rez

true but the changes i susggest still wound not put dps zeal on same level in damage as a pure dps, u provide somthing other stuff which usefull on ur role which is makeing the kills, and beside that u have a few other thinfs like rezzing, but compered to DoK/Wp AM/Shamy whos also got rez u also underperforming in burst and sustainable pressure

[retekelek]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Not every class has to be viable in every aspect of the game. You picked a minoritary spec, and I respect that as is something that I do often, but you can't demand that your minoritary spec works for anything else that for the niche that is was created for. Adapt and move on.

It utterly boggles my mind that an actual player has said this

I was flabbergasted when the devs said it but I’ve given up trying to make sense of some of their decisions

But a player? On what grounds can you honestly say this? That not every class has to be viable for every level of play when you got classes like marauder that’s great for every type of content at every level of play vs another class that you invest just as long in to grind out renown and gear only to be told “no your class want special enough for arbitrary reasons so you suck and are undesirable for this type of play too bad”

Some type of warning should be put on character creation then

Maybe I agree with the choices of the devs to restore the idea of the game that Mythic had? Idk, like crazy idea. Same that I don't expect that a heal spec SM turns into an actual healer. You specced it and that is fine, but don't expect my support to give the class actual active healing skills.

The rest is some kind of twisted way to turn my words to sound like "I don't want new players here". I have such the opposite idea that I normally go to the starting zones and gift away a lot of items, talis, pots, etc... But no, I hate new players cause I think that healers are to heal, DPSs to dd and tanks to withstand it. Or to sound like I have no empathy for the situation. I must have a very corrupted mind to think such ideas... Probably better to quarantine me. How dare I say to a person that ranked a healer class that is not my idea of game play to make it good for all DPS situations. You are both right. Zealots should be rewarded with a pure DPS tree once they hit rr80. Healing on a healer class? That's for noobs....
[/quote]

Thats out of topic, from that perspective just remove all AM/Shamy/WP/DoK/Runi/Zealot damage ability becuse they pure role is healing....
the thing is it has a reason that these classes have damage abilites and if u want to play em as their main role feel free to do it, but for peoples that rather have fun playing them whit thier offspec, which are provided in the game whit abilites and tatics, i dont udnerstand what the big deal about that some would like to make em viable to play on this role. And if u want to play em as thier main spec, as healers, also feel free to do it, but why i started this topic is not about that.

[retekelek]

Don't feel like a long post, so a few points:

1. Your int only works vs disrupt they gain from will, not from Doft Defender ets. So except vs healers, maxing int does pretty much nothing disrupt vise. On my magus, I'm doing fine with 950 sh int.
2. And zealot scaling with int sucks anyway, looks for other ways to increase dps.
3. You actually have a good synergy between crit tactic and heal debuff, use it.
4. 6 sec stagger with 100 f range worth more for kills then some more dps.

1. u will often find yourself in situations, where u want to kill healers, so at that time u dont want to see this "disrupt disrupt disrupt"
2. dont think theres other way for it, but main reason is point 1.
3. yeah thats what u make usefull in the party. Whit aoe spec=lot of pressure but since i wrote u need to be frontline and agaisnt a good premade its not gone work out well and ST aint has enough extra kick to make the kill happen.
4. its really usefull in roaming and good in 6v6 still u need ST spec to have it and reason u not ST is in point 3.

[Bosli]

I don't play on DPS much (mainly because it's pretty bad), but the biggest flaw of the Zealot is that the skill trees are all over the place, for both DPS and Heal.

If you want to go Single Target like this, you lose out on a lot of Damage because you can't debuff resists. If you want to debuff with the Demon Spittle tactic, you absolutely have to go all in Dark Rites or you don't even get half the resistance debuff, but being committed to the AoE tree destroys all Single Target capability because the direct damage attacks are in Alchemy, and the DoT is in Witchcraft.

To make it more viable, it would be pretty simple to set the base value of Sweeping Disgorgement much higher and reduce the gain per point, so that the tactic can be used with just the 4 points in the tree. I don't think it would change anything for warband-AoE play, since you still want to go high up in that tree. But obviously just plainly buffing the damage works too.

[dshdf]

initial idea cleary aint well-thought, dps zealot/runie are already flexible (most flexible in the whole game probably) with the gear. You even have access to insane +180 int combo from sent weapons, etc. You can hit int softcap even with mostly armor talis with right mix.
Moreover, anything more than 2 bl pieces is clearly not a BIS for any ranged healer, stats on items are terrible. You have issues with disrupt only because you ignore 2 opressor combo, which is clearly bis atm.

Actual issue with zealot/rp is their meme ability base damage and scaling, would be nice to see a buff in this direction one day

[retekelek]

I don't play on DPS much (mainly because it's pretty bad), but the biggest flaw of the Zealot is that the skill trees are all over the place, for both DPS and Heal.

If you want to go Single Target like this, you lose out on a lot of Damage because you can't debuff resists. If you want to debuff with the Demon Spittle tactic, you absolutely have to go all in Dark Rites or you don't even get half the resistance debuff, but being committed to the AoE tree destroys all Single Target capability because the direct damage attacks are in Alchemy, and the DoT is in Witchcraft.

To make it more viable, it would be pretty simple to set the base value of Sweeping Disgorgement much higher and reduce the gain per point, so that the tactic can be used with just the 4 points in the tree. I don't think it would change anything for warband-AoE play, since you still want to go high up in that tree. But obviously just plainly buffing the damage works too.

dont think that would help, u cant really slot tatic sweeping disorint on ST + 4 points on that tree, and also becasue of its range u would still need to go close engouh in charge/punce kotbs stagger/punt to enemy backline etc. range, so base problem up still. for single target u need ur teammates to have some corp resi debuff like chosen or a BO whit Waaagh ability

on the spec u posted, u cant slot scourged wrapping because of transference, which gives a big boost on ST damage, also u cant have storm of ravens which is also a good ST damage source. transference not worth to have in 6v6 because healing whit it is still fluff. Compared to what u loose for it, just worthless tactic atm.

[retekelek]

initial idea cleary aint well-thought, dps zealot/runie are already flexible (most flexible in the whole game probably) with the gear. You even have access to insane +180 int combo from sent weapons, etc. You can hit int softcap even with mostly armor talis with right mix.
Moreover, anything more than 2 bl pieces is clearly not a BIS for any ranged healer, stats on items are terrible. You have issues with disrupt only because you ignore 2 opressor combo, which is clearly bis atm.

Actual issue with zealot/rp is their meme ability base damage and scaling, would be nice to see a buff in this direction one day

i would not suggest to use sentinel weapon, because ur main priority after int soft cap in stats is crit chance, since ur healdebuffs come from ctitical hits, u want to have as much as u can have to provide that for ur team. whit sentinel u loose 4% crit chance, i wrote im using 3 gear mix whit genesis and 10 RR on intel whit full intel talis to reahc soft cap, so i dont really know what where u thinking about

i checked sentinel weapons and it would give 80 more intel than anathema+blooldlord which sounds nice but than u loose 30 initiative, 50 magic power, 4% crit chance, and even whit ap ritual this class really ap hungry so that 3AP lose also hurts.

i dont have issues whit disrupts since im near soft cap bytheway, but cant slot oppressor hands and head or i loose again intel+ crit chance or wounds or other usefull stats