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Ward system is boring

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Akilinus
Posts: 251

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#31 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:43 am

For how long is it reasonable to have a dungeon be relevant?
I think with this system you stop people that want to do dungeons because you see a mountain of chores that you have to do in order to get the gear you want so you skip it instead and wait for the next rvr/sc set
Kkomrade 80 Zealot Akilinuz 75 Chosen
Mauzer 60 Kotbs Kkomrades 70 Black Guard
Rhodesia 50 SH

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Fenris78
Posts: 112

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#32 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:52 am

I suggest making Sentinel ring obtention the same way Invader one ; as soon you obtain all other pieces and unlock the ward, you can buy the ring and equip it.

Since the real grind is starting when you want to use the super talismans (and basically have to do a full run once a week to upkeep the bonus), I think it's already enough in terms of time and effort ; no need to add boring repetition of 12-16 full runs only for one piece (that may be the most important, ok, but still... without the super talisman, the item itself is not OP, saving in some builds the extra set bonus).

Gunbad is more luck-based : you can get full set on the first run, and you understood it adds nothing to do same content too many times, since quests to unlock pieces have been implemented.

Now, we would appreciate having some consistency between set obtention ; you can currently get all Sentinel armor with 4 full runs ; why not unlock the ring after this sum of effort, knowing that to be full functionnal, it will still require one full run a week ?

Or at least, lower the initial grind, especially when there is a 3 or 4 days lock between runs. The system currently is not very motivating, when you say people they will need 16 runs, and at least 2 months to get one piece of gear - and they will have to do those dungeons again, and again, just to keep their gear up to date.
IMHO, the weekly talisman run should be enough of a grind (the reward worth it), without adding a long and painful serie of runs only for the base piece.

Or instead, make previous runs relevant and allow talisman tokens (not talismans themselves) to be stocked without rotting ; now you know that the grind you did for unlocking ring piece was relevant, since you got some reserve for future talisman renewal ; and the best part is you can still help others and do runs again everytime you want, since each time you'll get a token that won't rot (the carrot), but the talismans will still rot in 7d (the stick).
Reward = replayability and commitment.

Thanks ;)
Last edited by Fenris78 on Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hypernia
Posts: 52

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#33 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:57 am

Hey everyone, I want the best jewelry in the game with no effort. How come I have to work for it? Nobody is forcing you to do any of this if you don't want to. Don't like it, don't do it

My only complaint is that for runs 5-13 the talisman quest is pointless. Would be good if it could have an alternative reward for people who havent got the jewelry yet. Maybe crate of liniments or something consumables similar to the epic talisman?

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Ototo
Posts: 967

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#34 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:12 pm

Hypernia wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:57 am
Hey everyone, I want the best jewelry in the game with no effort. How come I have to work for it? Nobody is forcing you to do any of this if you don't want to. Don't like it, don't do it

(...)
This. You can close this thread now that Hypernia has made the best TL;DR of it.
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Fenris78
Posts: 112

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#35 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:13 pm

As you say, there is few incentive for runs since talisman quest wont allow tokens to persist ; so my suggestion is to make tokens persist and no rot (talismans will still deplete in 7d of course) :
- It adds a reward for initial runs (you are not doing this only for ring, only to have to do it again each week - wich is NOT motivating)
- People can help others every 3 days and run the dungeons, knowing that they dont waste half the time of their talismans (currently there is zero interest of doing 2 runs a week with the same character).

So you give incentive and real motivation for run (tokens that can be used when needed instead of depleting after each run), and real reward for helping others twice a week if needed (you still got another token for future talisman, of to change bonuses more frequently).

Or alternative rewards as previously suggested, crates of liniments/talismans like for ch22 PQ (wich are currently shorter and easier to do, at least two of them).
Last edited by Fenris78 on Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rockalypse
Database Developer
Posts: 297

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#36 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:17 pm

Fenris78 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:13 pm
As you say, there is few incentive for runs since talisman quest wont allow tokens to persist ; so my suggestion is to make tokens persist and no rot (talismans will still deplete in 7d of course) :
- It adds a reward for initial runs (you are not doing this only for ring, only to have to do it again each week - wich is NOT motivating)
- People can help others every 3 days and run the dungeons, knowing that they dont waste half the time of their talismans (currently there is zero interest of doing 2 runs a week with the same character).

So you give incentive and real motivation for run (tokens that can be used when needed instead of depleting items after each run), and real reward for helping others twice a week if needed (you still got another token for future talisman, of to change bonuses more frequently).
Token depletes in inventory, talisman - only if sloted. By time you finished your ring farm you can have storage of those waiting in bank.

Fenris78
Posts: 112

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#37 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:21 pm

Rockalypse wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:17 pm
Token depletes in inventory, talisman - only if sloted. By time you finished your ring farm you can have storage of those waiting in bank.
Was not aware of that, thanks. If makes my suggestion somehow obsolete now... :p

Nonetheless, it may be a good idea to clearly state this on the talisman, like "when used, this item will deplete in 7d".
There is currently no way of knowing the actual behavior, since the green info is the same for tokens and talismans...

HarkonenTimber
Posts: 6

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#38 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:43 pm

Akilinus wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:43 am
For how long is it reasonable to have a dungeon be relevant?
I think with this system you stop people that want to do dungeons because you see a mountain of chores that you have to do in order to get the gear you want so you skip it instead and wait for the next rvr/sc set
This

This is exactly what is happening. I dont do PvE because it is a shitton of grindy work to find groups for all the dungeons in a chronological order (to attain wards). I understand that the devs dont want dungeons to become obsolete, but at some point you got to let it go, especially with a population that can not somewhat steadily guarantee possibility to create groups (even during peak EU).

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magusmitu
Posts: 4

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#39 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:51 pm

gunbad should be like level 16 dg, a lower level dg for starter gear for newer level 32-35
then city dungeons less grindy for the jewel
and bs high end and grind like it is

User avatar
Ototo
Posts: 967

Re: Ward system is boring

Post#40 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:52 pm

HarkonenTimber wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:43 pm
Akilinus wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:43 am
For how long is it reasonable to have a dungeon be relevant?
I think with this system you stop people that want to do dungeons because you see a mountain of chores that you have to do in order to get the gear you want so you skip it instead and wait for the next rvr/sc set
This

This is exactly what is happening. I dont do PvE because it is a shitton of grindy work to find groups for all the dungeons in a chronological order (to attain wards). I understand that the devs dont want dungeons to become obsolete, but at some point you got to let it go, especially with a population that can not somewhat steadily guarantee possibility to create groups (even during peak EU).
You don't need wards for any other thing than for equipping the sets. You could, if you have the time and wanted to, do all dungeons simultaneously and get all gear in 3 weeks.
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