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Guard Change

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TreefAM
Posts: 30

Re: Guard Change

Post#11 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:48 pm

Stance dancing for sw is kinda annoying, wish it was a bit cleaner/quicker :\
Or that there's a macro I could use to just between them and not use up two keybinds

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zumos2
Posts: 311

Re: Guard Change

Post#12 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:38 pm

Ototo wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:46 pm
MedV wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:32 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:22 pm


Like every stance mechanic of the game. I see no difference between that and stance-dancing of SWs or covenant switching of DoKs. If you want that extra skilled point, you have to work for it. Main difference is that you only need to work with 1 button instead of with 3 like most other classes have. If you think that is easier, I kindly invite you to try stance-dancing, in example.
Stance dancing for Mara and SW take one click. OP is asking to make guard swap the same as stance dancing for the other classes. Your argument makes 0 sense.
Not true. It's 2 click: One for the stance change, other for the skill that you want to perform. Exactly the same amount of clicks. I presume that you either don't stance-dance too much, or that you do it for extended periods of time. This situation is comparable only if you are constantly trying to take advantage of it, same as switching guard has the same goal, or moving fast to snare covenant b4 dropping frontal AoEs in DoKs, in example.

EDIT: It was incredibly laconic and unclear the 1st time.
It is not nearly as smooth as Mara/SW changing stance and then using ability or SM/BO changing stance and then using an ability. I've had a lot of times where I double pressed guard and didnt properly swap (as it should). There must be some underlying tech issue there. If that is resolved and quickly pressing twice always works then I would be happy as well. Otherwise having guard instantly swap to your target seems like a good solution to me. The only question is how do you remove guard then? Do you make so that when you press guard without a target eligable for guarding that it gets removed? Or do you make a seperate button to remove guard (kinda like how you have a button to remove pets).
Zumos - Member of Red Guard

Current Guilds: Deep and Dry - Order ----- The Unlikely Plan / Dark Omen - Destruction

ziomek
Posts: 48

Re: Guard Change

Post#13 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:07 am

l2p issue tbh. good tanks dont complain about having 2 press 2 keystrokes and making it require 1 will just increase TTK enormously coz ppl with slow reactions will no longer be punishe

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Ototo
Posts: 967

Re: Guard Change

Post#14 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:29 am

zumos2 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:38 pm
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:46 pm
MedV wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:32 pm
Spoiler:
Stance dancing for Mara and SW take one click. OP is asking to make guard swap the same as stance dancing for the other classes. Your argument makes 0 sense.
Not true. It's 2 click: One for the stance change, other for the skill that you want to perform. Exactly the same amount of clicks. I presume that you either don't stance-dance too much, or that you do it for extended periods of time. This situation is comparable only if you are constantly trying to take advantage of it, same as switching guard has the same goal, or moving fast to snare covenant b4 dropping frontal AoEs in DoKs, in example.

EDIT: It was incredibly laconic and unclear the 1st time.
It is not nearly as smooth as Mara/SW changing stance and then using ability or SM/BO changing stance and then using an ability. I've had a lot of times where I double pressed guard and didnt properly swap (as it should). There must be some underlying tech issue there. If that is resolved and quickly pressing twice always works then I would be happy as well. Otherwise having guard instantly swap to your target seems like a good solution to me. The only question is how do you remove guard then? Do you make so that when you press guard without a target eligable for guarding that it gets removed? Or do you make a seperate button to remove guard (kinda like how you have a button to remove pets).
It is my opinion still that having lag issues in the server or client sides, like every player of every class has, is not reason enough to oversimplify a mechanic that is incredibly powerful per se. I would agree with 2x buttons if at least one of them incurred in GCD, cause if you gonna NerfedButton the situation, still you need to have drawbacks.

Let's face it, guard is the 2nd most powerful defensive mechanic only slightly, very slightly, behind defensive stats, and needs to be properly balanced to not give away free unkillable immunities. You have to work for it, but given that you don't want to, then pay for it.
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blakokami
Posts: 114

Re: Guard Change

Post#15 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:39 am

zumos2 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:38 pm
Ototo wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:46 pm
MedV wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:32 pm
Spoiler:
Stance dancing for Mara and SW take one click. OP is asking to make guard swap the same as stance dancing for the other classes. Your argument makes 0 sense.
Not true. It's 2 click: One for the stance change, other for the skill that you want to perform. Exactly the same amount of clicks. I presume that you either don't stance-dance too much, or that you do it for extended periods of time. This situation is comparable only if you are constantly trying to take advantage of it, same as switching guard has the same goal, or moving fast to snare covenant b4 dropping frontal AoEs in DoKs, in example.

EDIT: It was incredibly laconic and unclear the 1st time.
It is not nearly as smooth as Mara/SW changing stance and then using ability or SM/BO changing stance and then using an ability. I've had a lot of times where I double pressed guard and didnt properly swap (as it should). There must be some underlying tech issue there. If that is resolved and quickly pressing twice always works then I would be happy as well. Otherwise having guard instantly swap to your target seems like a good solution to me. The only question is how do you remove guard then? Do you make so that when you press guard without a target eligable for guarding that it gets removed? Or do you make a seperate button to remove guard (kinda like how you have a button to remove pets).
You are correct. The double tapping guard used to work, now you have to wait in-between each click of guard. This happened a while ago when they made it so you couldn't double pot at the same time also. Alot of people complained about it and nothing was done. Guard is tons more clunky now than earlier in this servers life or on live. Even worse with high ping.

anrix
Posts: 47

Re: Guard Change

Post#16 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:24 pm

I still don't know why people are arguing this as a skill mechanic. This was probably an unintentional result of poor design. If guard were a stance, then it would not be toggled off when switching targets as the tank is not leaving a guard stance.

They just need to make this work like oath friend and dark protector.

For those continuing to argue this as a skill test then why not push for more abilities to function like this. Imagine if this is how auto attack worked, having to untoggle it and retoggle it every time someone switched targets. That would be super skillful and wouldn’t create an uproar around the diminishing gameplay experience.

Sulorie
Posts: 4356

Re: Guard Change

Post#17 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:47 pm

anrix wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:24 pm

They just need to make this work like oath friend and dark protector.

Hell no, you can't remove both skills without a different target in range.
Dying is no option.

anrix
Posts: 47

Re: Guard Change

Post#18 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:00 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:47 pm
anrix wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:24 pm

They just need to make this work like oath friend and dark protector.

Hell no, you can't remove both skills without a different target in range.
I meant make it transition as smoothly, then just toggle it off if you want it off, I also still mean to keep it contained to the group the tank is in.

The reason I think guard works like this, is because it requires a button press to update the state change so the UI can display the toggle highlight, instead of having the buff notify the caster on initiation that it has been successfully applied, and then on destruction of the buff notifying the caster it has been removed. So a transition could be made to a single click without depending on the button click provide it also ensured on initiation that it destroys any similar buff from the same caster on a different party member.

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ziomek
Posts: 48

Re: Guard Change

Post#19 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:02 pm

why r u having issues when other seasoned tanks dont?? could it possibly be fault on your part? just a slight possibility???

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Ototo
Posts: 967

Re: Guard Change

Post#20 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:22 pm

anrix wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:24 pm
I still don't know why people are arguing this as a skill mechanic. This was probably an unintentional result of poor design. If guard were a stance, then it would not be toggled off when switching targets as the tank is not leaving a guard stance.

They just need to make this work like oath friend and dark protector.

For those continuing to argue this as a skill test then why not push for more abilities to function like this. Imagine if this is how auto attack worked, having to untoggle it and retoggle it every time someone switched targets. That would be super skillful and wouldn’t create an uproar around the diminishing gameplay experience.
It has auto in the name and is not class dependant? Idk, like crazy ideas...

Also you have used a couple of, imo, very bad examples of skills. Those are also 2+ click skills: 1st the Oath/DP button which does absolutely nothing but adding the stance, then the skill or skills that will buff your Oath/DP. Even if you argue that they build career mechanic points, is due to other people clicks. Exactly the same as I have said multiple times. The buff only applies when the 2nd click is performed, and so does guard.

This 2+ clicks mechanics are all around the game, from some "target need X to become Y" to the fabric of some classes like SH/SW, BOrk/SM, or WH/WE. This is not poor design, this is a gateway to avoid abuse of, as I said the 2nd most powerful defensive mechanic, and mechanics in general. You are sharing damage with a class specifically designed to absorb and deflect damage, and that has a huge health pool...
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