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New Forts System

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Alfa1986
Posts: 542

Re: New Forts System

Post#51 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:10 am

carlos wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:07 am
Alfa1986 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:06 am as for x realming. one of the possible reasons why people change side on more populated is that some people publish the number of people in this zone on each side in general chat. people see that they are in the minority and are rerolling to a more populated side. suggestion :
to make impossible to see the real number of people in this zone on each side, and you can see only total number of players.
So your suggestion is to remove one of the major tools the underdog have to fight/dodge the big zerg blob?

in my opinion, the publication of numbers, on the contrary, provokes people to leave from a few pop side to a hi pop one. Suppose a person logs in the side of order, and after five minutes of battle he/she sees that someone writes in the chat that the ratio is 150 to 120, after which he/she thinks “why will I play for the side of the losers? I won’t get a normal renown, and the bags, I’d better switch to destro ", and in the end it turns out the system itself provokes players to x realming. and if he hadn’t seen these numbers, he would have played on the side of order.
15th orks on a dead elf's chest
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: New Forts System

Post#52 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:16 am

Alfa1986 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:10 am
carlos wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:07 am
Alfa1986 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:06 am as for x realming. one of the possible reasons why people change side on more populated is that some people publish the number of people in this zone on each side in general chat. people see that they are in the minority and are rerolling to a more populated side. suggestion :
to make impossible to see the real number of people in this zone on each side, and you can see only total number of players.
So your suggestion is to remove one of the major tools the underdog have to fight/dodge the big zerg blob?

in my opinion, the publication of numbers, on the contrary, provokes people to leave from a few pop side to a hi pop one. Suppose a person logs in the side of order, and after five minutes of battle he/she sees that someone writes in the chat that the ratio is 150 to 120, after which he/she thinks “why will I play for the side of the losers? I won’t get a normal renown, and the bags, I’d better switch to destro ", and in the end it turns out the system itself provokes players to x realming. and if he hadn’t seen these numbers, he would have played on the side of order.
And get 1 renow per solo kill ?

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Alfa1986
Posts: 542

Re: New Forts System

Post#53 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:37 am

wachlarz wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:16 am
Alfa1986 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:10 am
carlos wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:07 am

So your suggestion is to remove one of the major tools the underdog have to fight/dodge the big zerg blob?

in my opinion, the publication of numbers, on the contrary, provokes people to leave from a few pop side to a hi pop one. Suppose a person logs in the side of order, and after five minutes of battle he/she sees that someone writes in the chat that the ratio is 150 to 120, after which he/she thinks “why will I play for the side of the losers? I won’t get a normal renown, and the bags, I’d better switch to destro ", and in the end it turns out the system itself provokes players to x realming. and if he hadn’t seen these numbers, he would have played on the side of order.
And get 1 renow per solo kill ?
to get 25 k for renown for killing the lord, then else 15 k for the lock of the zone, after 30-1 hours the same from the other zone, + renown for killing players. in one evening, the zerg can easily win 5-10 zones + 2 forts( +- 200-400 k renown).
15th orks on a dead elf's chest
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

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carlos
Posts: 241

Re: New Forts System

Post#54 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:15 am

Alfa1986 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:37 am
wachlarz wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:16 am
Alfa1986 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:10 am


in my opinion, the publication of numbers, on the contrary, provokes people to leave from a few pop side to a hi pop one. Suppose a person logs in the side of order, and after five minutes of battle he/she sees that someone writes in the chat that the ratio is 150 to 120, after which he/she thinks “why will I play for the side of the losers? I won’t get a normal renown, and the bags, I’d better switch to destro ", and in the end it turns out the system itself provokes players to x realming. and if he hadn’t seen these numbers, he would have played on the side of order.
And get 1 renow per solo kill ?
to get 25 k for renown for killing the lord, then else 15 k for the lock of the zone, after 30-1 hours the same from the other zone, + renown for killing players. in one evening, the zerg can easily win 5-10 zones + 2 forts( +- 200-400 k renown).
I see your point though i honestly don't think this apply to the majority of core players on this server. I might be wrong, no proof what so ever but what i do know is that the organized WB's uses this as a major tool to know where to go.
Starfkr


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Ninjagon
Posts: 474

Re: New Forts System

Post#55 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:35 pm

Some fort ideas:

1. Population limit, old reservation system = easy and quick solution. Pop cap can be raised up.
2. Activate prison mechanic when the fight for fortress start. This can be very interesting, attackers should respawn, all realeased defenders to the prison, which has to be well guarded ...
3. Phasing - more fort instances, distribute population. The side with most succes (forts) wins whole fight.
4. Siege weapons or other help for the attacker side, if population is too high (more than 5 WBs = 120 people)
Ninjab - The White Lion. No Destruction character. RETRIBUTION guild.
Also: Velmires - WP, Carnow - KotbS, Ninjagon - BW, Nynja - SW, Stin - WH, and others.
Spoiler:
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Alfa1986
Posts: 542

Re: New Forts System

Post#56 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:39 pm

some observations that the open forts system made possible:
the success of attackers often depends on the number of these attackers ( exact numbers are not important now).
1. if the general number of attackers = the number of defenders. in this case, if the defenders have at least one healer per group (lol there were cases when the defenders had two healers for two warbands), then there is every chance of preventing the attackers from even doing stage 2.
2. if the number of attackers is 1.5 times more than the number of defenders.
attackers can complete stage 2, but most likely they will fail in stage 3.
3. if the attackers more then defenders at 2 or more times. then attackers can easily complete stage 2 and there are good chances to win stage 3.

about the pop cap.
1. if we have up to 100 people on each side - there are almost no lags
ofcoze if the server is in good condition (there were cases when the server itself required a reboot regardless whether the fort happened or not).
2. 100-150 people on each side - there are small lags in large-scale battles on the BOs and the lord's room. not critical.
3. 150-200 people on each side - there are significant lags in large-scale battles on the BOs and in the room of the lord. It’s already becoming difficult to play, and not comfortable.
4. more than 250 people on each side (450+ people in the zone) - it’s difficult to play, significant lags, frequent crashes from the game, often disconnecting.
these are my observations, but I have an old computer, maybe those who have a better computer, they will have another opinion.
15th orks on a dead elf's chest
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

janna
Posts: 31

Re: New Forts System

Post#57 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:14 am

Before fixing anything at forts itself, it would be helpfull to figure out a way against intentional losing the zones before.

Herthin
Posts: 58

Re: New Forts System

Post#58 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:38 pm

janna wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:14 am Before fixing anything at forts itself, it would be helpfull to figure out a way against intentional losing the zones before.
Disclaimer: Hard biased opinons ahead - read at own risk.

TL;DR: Both issues are cross connected. The fix of the Forts will at last to some degree fix the behaviour of the community.

Here is why:
The current system rewards it more than ever since in case the deffers dont have at last 100+aao (which doesnt happen (outside of NA prime) for quite a long time anymore).
The last of the last few forts i was in (let it be ~30 over the last 3 weeks) the attackers was stopped at the gates of the outer ring.
So the attackers get farmed over and over, no chance of doing anything but feeding and feeding.

If they manage to get inside they get pushed out very quick, if that doesnt happen and they can get the inner down (which i havent seen in a long time now) the same **** happens in the lordroom since there are 3+++++++++++++ warbands in a very small space funneling of which on a minimum of 2 have not existed at all before the fort popped.

I ask you which side is more preferable to be on?
Both sides get the RR tick and 4 Invadermeds anyways after 45minutes of suffering.
The attackers that has no chance anyways or the defenders that can sit back and wipe the opposing side if they feel like it from time to time?

I aLwAys PlAy On ThE sIdE tHaT hAs LoWeR nUmBeRs, maybe? Just like everyone else?

Defenders win with minimal effort, attackers fail no matter what they do aside from kill farming, nothing much to achieve.
Its a very human thing that people tend to want to win.

Good luck fixing humans.

On the "giving up zones" problem in general:
Spoiler:
The giving up of Zones has come to an halt for the most part as the 6 Medallion reward was nerfed for Defenders.
(A change with i am still not OK with since it punishes the "honest" defenders too.)
Not because of the nagging in the chats when a pragmatist brought the idea to the table.
Not because forum posts that nameshamed people because of it.
And none of the naggers EVER opted out of a fort after a zone was thrown to the dogs. At last not to my knowlege.
For my part, i pretty much join Fort attacks nowadays only when im drunk.
But you can bet i be the first to jump off that wall to flank you if you attack.
Im a horrible person.

Neat sideeffect of that is that T4 oRvR pretty much stalled over the last few days since nobody really wants to be the attacker anymore. Strange isnt it?
Its not a question of population since when a fort pops you have 400 ppl and more in the fort in 3 minutes. Must be the magic.

cheers

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turlututuhu
Posts: 253

Re: New Forts System

Post#59 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:20 pm

I have not play enough Fortresses to give a good feedback or suggestions about, I m playing Forteresses since 1 month now and their design can be or seems to be fun but most of those I have played last days were a "little bit" annoying.

I just want to notice something.
Here we have no "siege tower" and it is a real problem and more again if we consider attackers can't get over the wall but that the defenders are free to jump of the wall !
That make the seige more difficult; How many time I have seen attackers pushing outer gate and defenders easy funneling them + other defenders jumping of the wall to kill attackers healer, sandwich and nuke every attackers so easily...

It could be more balanced (fair) to think for a more biggest malus about this "wall jumping", what is a defence tactic widely employed.


Why there is a jail for defenders for the second stage and not a jail on the top of inner keep for attackers ?
Most of the time if attackers are able to push to the second stage this is because they outnumber defenders as was said before, you give a jail in benefit of the most populated realm but not for the less populated , who need it most.
test monkey 062 (test failure... escaped)

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: New Forts System

Post#60 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:03 pm

today dark elf fort destro where 200+ vs 100 order and we pushed till guards and even than we crazy pushed deeper into order wc in fort. maby someone say its intened to be like that defenders more than attackers.
also more than 300 and all start lag = unplayable.
best idea invader medals gear and defender medal gear. u cant have invader (attack) when u defend. its funny.
p.s who deeper push receive 100g from great leader
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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