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Need for a middle tier for rvr

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Drys
Posts: 117

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#11 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:06 am

Hargrim wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:44 am No, you are wrong. It will still be ghost town if we get back to the campaign separation.
It may have been once, but is there harm in trying it now that we have better population? Especially 16-39 I think would have decent enough population. Online right now, we have:

Tier 1 - 102 players
New MId-Tier (Lvl 16-39) - 117 players
Tier 4 - 226 players

That's enough in the mid-tier for 2+ WBs per side. If it's sieging the single-door keeps, that's plenty.

Could it hurt to try it for a few weeks? See if the pop supports it, if there's good feedback, and interest from folks in playing mid-tier?
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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#12 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:21 am

Hargrim wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:44 am No, you are wrong. It will still be ghost town if we get back to the campaign separation.
Perhaps, but we could maybe still look into this.
A start would be to maybe hold a poll and see how many people would want a middle tier back. Personally, I would. I am more than happy to set this up.

Another possible solution would be to have the T2/3 zones intermediate between low-tier and high-tier. So, let's say, a T2 zone will sometimes be open for low tiers, sometimes for high tiers. We can keep the ratio 2:1 for high tiers so that not too many low zones exist.

From your experience, how complicated would that be to implement?

I understand that many people say that a low-tier would mean their favorite toons would not see the low zones anymore and that bringing back the way it was would result in ghost town (it was, at times) but I believe mid-tier rvr is essential for a fun experience to the game. That is the area where "meme-specs" (dps dok/wp, long-range sw/sh etc.) actually become competitive builds. It also helps with a balance perspective since the game plays differently below 40/40. Some classes are stronger, some are weaker.

The SC solution does exist for this, but i would argue that the SC and RvR experiences are quite different.
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Ototo
Posts: 1012

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#13 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:35 am

You fail to understand that you can't: Play with your guildies that are currently level 40, switch mid-battle to a diff class, have enough tank/healers cause people that rank support classes level faster, having MASSIVE decrease in population when a T4 zone that can unlock a Fort or City Siege opens, etc... You think that is nice and so, but in fact people is not power leveling in RoR cause there is no need to jump across the mid tier to play with the people you want, play the class you want, etc...

This is a terrible idea, and every damn experience that I have from the past confirms it.
Last edited by Ototo on Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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saupreusse
Developer
Posts: 2386

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#14 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:38 am

Has one of you even played on this server when we had a middle tier? I think not cause otherwise you would not be suggesting bringing it back. It was not working. Its a horrible design choice that simply can not work and is doomed to fail. We tried it and it sucked. It wont ever work and it will fail again like it did on live servers and here.
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H0tYand3r3
Posts: 31

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#15 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:50 am

saupreusse wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:38 am Has one of you even played on this server when we had a middle tier? I think not cause otherwise you would not be suggesting bringing it back. It was not working. Its a horrible design choice that simply can not work and is doomed to fail. We tried it and it sucked. It wont ever work and it will fail again like it did on live servers and here.
Wasn't the reason we stopped a mid tier in the first place was because of the low numbers during NA primetime? It wasn't that EU was an issue with t2-t3 but that NA at best would get like 5 people during this time for mid tier?

To be fair, it's been roughly 2 years now? (I could be wrong) That we put the two together. I agree with a comment said earlier. I don't think it would hurt to put the two together for a little bit and make it 16-39, maybe even 12-39? Make t4 a 40 area only.

As an NA player I'm getting sick of being given a t2 zone 4-5 days a week and no one wishing to push. Especially since war camps are right next to the keep.
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Hargrim
Developer
Posts: 2465

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#16 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:53 am

It is bad idea and the hurt to do that: spent valuable time and resources on changing this just to prove some players are wrong. That's what I call a well spent week.
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H0tYand3r3
Posts: 31

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#17 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:05 pm

Hargrim wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:53 am It is bad idea and the hurt to do that: spent valuable time and resources on changing this just to prove some players are wrong. That's what I call a well spent week.
I don't know if it's some players tbh. I've had this talk with quite a few people and even in NA they were quick to agree. I haven't really found anyone who disagrees with doing this.

Don't get me wrong I remember when you guys changed it and it helped the server immensely. But NA is significantly more active then it was back then.
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Natherul
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Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#18 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:25 pm

It was changed because it was deserted in both NA and EU.

Simply put its not a good idea and another good thing about keeping these in the same "tier" is that there is more variation for people.

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Nekkma
Posts: 722

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#19 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:36 pm

It worked perfectly fine on live servers and people saying othervise are just wrong. It is a population issue. No more, no less. Population on this server outside of EU primetime is very likeky to small to sustain it.

Lower tiers provided a different experience than T4, with smaller battles and more limited skill set, which was fun. Just as T1 do now but the difference is that T1 lacks keeps.
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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: Need for a middle tier for rvr

Post#20 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:57 pm

I have seen people here claim T2-3 was deserted. My following statement is for EU only: It was deserted SOMETIMES. Yes there were moments when the lakes were empty or at best contained 10 people in total, but there were also moments when you had even 2 warbands per side (maybe not full).
Saying one or the other was more the case is subjective and baseless, unless the game somehow has analytic tools for player activity. I doubt it.

Also we are not taking one more thing into consideration: a mid-tier lake would decrease the population of the high-tier, which would in turn decrease lag.
The server can support 1000 people online. It's on the homepage activity panel.
What it, apparently, can't support very well is 500/600 of those people in the same zone, same area, fighting.

Again, I think a poll would be the best thing to put the issue to rest. If enough people want it, maybe it is worth looking into it, even if that means that sometimes the zones will be dead. If not, then that's that.

Obviously this is not a priority.
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