About Reduce AOE Damage RvR Broken

[Collateral]

I don't understand why devs won't try it at least. Aza tried with his dmg buff, it failed and was reverted (because you could kill half a wb with one person if he was healed enough. This wouldn't be the case with increased cap because your damage would remain the same, not increase 100%). What do you have to lose? I'm of a belief that you can't know for certain until you try.

The fact is that zergs are bigger than ever, and order barely tries to organize any competent wbs. That's because a lot of their classes are just meh in wbs, and it's best to spam bws. This gets boring fast. So class balance is also something that contributes to this, we have to remember.

[Reesh]

Just a quick observation - every player that did their fair share in organized wb territory, or strategic rvr gameplay and know the drill about blob wars, supports the idea of increasing or disabling the aoe cap.

There must be something to it then, right?

Remove caps for a period of time for testing. It won't hurt anyone.

[Zanilos]

Just a quick observation - every player that did their fair share in organized wb territory, or strategic rvr gameplay and know the drill about blob wars, supports the idea of increasing or disabling the aoe cap.

There must be something to it then, right?

Remove caps for a period of time for testing. It won't hurt anyone.

You must be new here.

[wachlarz]

Just a quick observation - every player that did their fair share in organized wb territory, or strategic rvr gameplay and know the drill about blob wars, supports the idea of increasing or disabling the aoe cap.

There must be something to it then, right?

Remove caps for a period of time for testing. It won't hurt anyone.

Yes just we will see +200% more BW on order side And zero tac just spam aoe

[Yaliskah]

The Administrator ' Yaliskah ' server say , if i reduce the AOE for exemple , all my community player leave the game.

I don't remember to have said this. Fact is
- i'm unable to modify anything related to abilities. And i'm not involved in this stuff, even i can give my opinion ( and those who are working on it, can just ignore me)(if I reduce)
- i don't consider community as "mine". (all MY community)
- imo, players are here cause they want to. They go where they want to. Anyone in the team and most of ppl who know me, know my position about "clientelism". (leave the game)
- have always said i consider myself more like a player than anything, and i play with cards i have in game. There are some aspect i don't enjoy/understand but as said billions of time, nothing engraved and things take time. (the AOE for exemple)

Anyway. I dislike someone distort my words or put words in my mouth.
In the future, please, if someone wants to quote me (and make a private conversation public...), it would be kind to quote me properly, without shortcuts, and giving context.

Thank you.

[roadkillrobin]

Anyone involved in organized warband knows that there's much more to it then randomly pressing AoE skills in a spammeble manner. You have rotations based on situations and situational CD's to manage just like when playing single target comps.
And that said, positioning and timing is the moast important aspect of playing a AoE damage based warband and not having the moast AoE. Slayers timing SL in open combat and Engies Magnet is in stand off's are extremly important features to add versitility to a warband.

[wonshot]

One of the rare occasions where a topic is actually both interresting and have some good debate,

First of all I do not agree with the opening post about AoE damage should be reduced. Aoe builds require setup, gaurd and healing cover and some extend of critical mass to be applied on the same location for the Area of Effect, to be effectful, and not just fluff damage.

Example, if you are an aoe speced Engineer in a scenario you might get alot of damage done on the scoreboard, and depending on healingcover on the destro side, you might score killing blows with your aoe. but if they got plenty of healing, your damage will do close to nothing worth mentioning in terms of presure.

Same goes for oRvR. A single BW/Sorc in a funnel situation might see some decent crits on the groundtarget aoe, but if there is no other aoe firepower to support the damage, it will not do enough to grant kills.
As of balancing and numbervalues right now, aoe seem to be in a fine place. You might get rare occasions where aoe damage numbers are high due to hitting lowlevel targets or targets with low resists, and that feels super strong if you are on the recieving end, but in organized largescale warfare with Hold the Line stacks, resists buffs, and propper setups. The one-man-aoe-spam is doing nothing, aoe needs to be coordinated and stacked on top to be lethal.

AoE targetcap is the biggest enemy of all AAO hunting bombgroups, that is no secret and everyone setup for a propper "300" moment remember keenly how it was back on AoR Live with old closequaters, targetcap and stacking Rain of Fire pits. However, back then the playerbase was more driven and organized and unfortuneatly the balancing has to accept the reality of the server.

This IS a private server with all that it means in terms of manpower and expectations towards development. The server population have been going up and down, dominating realm has been swifting back and forth and guilds come and go. Because the server is casual and cater towards casual players to enjoy one of their favoritgames from the past. An increase to Aoecap would benefit the organized and outnumbered player, but would drive casuals away. As is the nature of any pvp focused game, one side has to lose and if players lose too much they either adapt or quit.

So sure, we can dream about increasing aoe damage numbers, aoe cap, the campaign and all other sorts of mechanics that would allow the few organized players to fully utilize theyr efforts in getting organized and ready for the 300 moments.

But instead I just wish the developers would focus more on pushing the overall server out of the casual mindset of flaghugging, zerging for easymode rewards, and pointless goals of obtaining gear and RR and never "use it" but instead quit or reroll. Make killing fun and matter, so when ever players have the option to log on and pug a zonelock on the winning side, or join a guild/alliance or heck even fight for their realm and put some pride and effort into improving they would have some drive to pick the fight over the easy sence of progression, that will in 9/10 situations end up leaving them with no goal after full gear has been obtained.

Guildstandards seemed to be a step in the right direction, and I want to belive the changes to AAO was with the same right intention, and showed no fear of trying things out to see what sticks and what doesnt work.

Not all of this can be blamed on the devs, sure flag hugging from T1 and upwards built the mentality of easymode leeching, but the playerbase also have responsability for how the overall mindset is towards obtaining rewards and how the pvp quality is.
Step it up! Join a guild! get involved!

[Collateral]

But isn't zerging driving away the casual players also? A couple of weeks back, order was dominating hard for some time, and before that it was destro. Once a side gets enough numbers to steam roll everything, the other one just quits, especially the casuals and pugs who have no way of getting something out of aao (i.e. ganking parties or small skirmish wbs). So I think it goes both ways. But in the long run, it's the big guilds that suffer always.

Of course server health and population is what matters in the end. No one wants this game to become an elitist infested playground where no one can come to relax and have fun. But I think it's about balancing it out. I would love to see roaming warbands once again, like it was a few years back. You never knew what could pop behind the corner, or when you could get flanked. Now it's mostly one blob against the other (people in region chat always asking 'where's the zerg?'), with a couple of odd roaming wbs from time to time. So I still believe reducing or removing aoe cap could help balance it out, giving a fighting chance to those wbs that actually want to try, that put in the time and effort to organize. Because surely that means they care about the game enough, and want to get from it everything it has to offer? I'm not really aware of any other game that does it like warhammer.

[DirkDaring]

Just a quick observation - every player that did their fair share in organized wb territory, or strategic rvr gameplay and know the drill about blob wars, supports the idea of increasing or disabling the aoe cap.

There must be something to it then, right?

Remove caps for a period of time for testing. It won't hurt anyone.

You must be new here.

Yep . thats just Crazy talk ! haha

Quote

"This IS a private server with all that it means in terms of manpower and expectations towards development. The server population have been going up and down, dominating realm has been swifting back and forth and guilds come and go. Because the server is casual and cater towards casual players to enjoy one of their favoritgames from the past. An increase to Aoecap would benefit the organized and outnumbered player, but would drive casuals away. As is the nature of any pvp focused game, one side has to lose and if players lose too much they either adapt or quit."


True this is a private server, and someone has to lose, but saying that if the underdog/outnumbered side has a chance to win due to being better organized, people will quit, because their ezmode zergs could lose is silly.
The AOE cap increase would benefit the Zerglings as well, so not seeing an issue, only issue i see is people with the idea that the biggest side should always win, and superior tactics, skill, etc shouldnt matter.

Keeping it how it is , is just as silly, and will also cause people to leave as well, why waste time forming a wb, setting it up etc, just to know that you really have no chance of winning, due to that youll never be able to fight against the zerg, because no matter what, you cant do damage to more than 9 targets.

Unlike a lot of people i guess, ive never really chased AAO even on live, not to worried about bag rolls, or renown, all those things are a byproduct of doing RvR, the thing that has always gotten me into the Lakes , was the same thing that got me into Frontiers, Thid etc in DAOC, the ablity to use skill, and tactics to overcome superior numbers, but in its current state there`s very little chance of success.

So the thinking that allowing small organized wb, etc to have a chance to beat zerglings will drive away the zerglings, is the same vs driving away organized gamers, most will just stay in SC, leave the zone resulting in a boring Rvdoor zone lock, or just leave the game entirely.

[virgile28]

Hey guys,
From my point of view, the prob in RvR is the grping of wb.
The zerg side seems to not take advantage from having more people to have a better cover of the map. Why they do that ? Because they don't get anything from it. They just need to get enough stars to siege and win.
Night after night we see the same strategy from the zerging side. Spending Hours of play to pretty much don't gain anything from killing. For me this is twisting a PvP system to a PvE system, u don't need to fight the other side to win. U need to have people sitting on a few Bo's to get enough stars and then attack with a huge number advantage.
The AAO system is here to balance it but could be improve just a bit.
For example could we have something that take in consideration the numbers of people involve in a fight, instead of just having the entire map under the rule of the AAO. If a grp of 6 people from the zerg side chose to go and hunt they could have a general gain reduce by X% but if the fight they pick is fair/under-numbered the gain of renown could be interesting for the player.
The other side would still get the full bonus for having the balls to go hunt under numbered. But we could give some love to the players who want's to hunt and not wait and see in a blob.
Because right now if the zerg side is to big u don't get anything, Medallion, RR, XP etc nothing, but the final victory. So pugs just sit in huge WB semi afk, instead of making small grp's to get a chance of being rewarded for it. Because the way u fight doesn't matter right now if ur side is dominating, better make sure of the win.
The AoE problem, for me, comes from there. The lack of reward from AAO force people to just play for the attack on the keep. Therefor people just aoe spec and wait the final moment to finally press 1 button dozen of time and "win" ...
Reducing the rewards for the lock based on the AAO number could be looked at but it ain't an appropriate solution for me, since we need people in RvR to make it interesting.
But emphasize people to get out of those blob to fight and maybe join the blob for the keep seem's to be a better way to reduce those 4 wb's blobs that we see all the time atm.
If people start to go in small grp's, less people will have AoE spec.
I know this idea doesn't fully answer the topic problematic. But based on having a system that consider the number of participant in each fight, the number of target hit by the AoE could follow kind of the same rule. Scaling Up depending on the people in the fighting area. For example if the based number is 9 target/aoe, in the case of 4 wb vs 1 wb.
We could have for the 4 WB AoE still hitting 9 people
but for the 1 WB AoE would hit 9*4.
I don't now how realistic this is, If the numbers could end up scaling up to hard, or if our dev's can make this possible (have no clue on how hard it's to implement those kind of changes). But I think this could help.
Thx for reading me, have a good one folks.
Make PvP great again !