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Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

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Garrus
Posts: 78

Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#1 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:31 am

Yes yes, I know, I'm going to start getting hate from people all over the forums like honey attracting bees. Hear me out:
Yes, Chosen is mostly a tank class, but has anyone even tried what a DWCC would feel like in actual gameplay? It is true that Chosen already have a 2h weapon, however, why shouldn't there also be a dual wield?! Dual wield on all chaos warriors, champions and marauders are canon (it is the throwing axes on chosen and warriors that aren't) so why the hell not test out DW on a Chosen? I'm more than certain that it would be an amazingly fun build to use. From what I remember already being mentioned here on the forum either recently or some time ago, when DW is enabled on a class and a character of that class equips it, it automatically swaps to DW animations. While I don't know what is what in reality (never actually worked with the game so NO **** IDEA for certain), I trust enough what has been already said about that (due to specifics that have been mentioned) so I won't argue about any coding, anims or whatever else, I'm just Saiyan what's been already said. Back to topic.

DW Chosen:
1. Lose all capability to block attacks. Even with the might of the Chaos Chosen, they can't block **** with Dual weapons. Not possible unless you are a one lucky bastard. Ok, change that to either 0.5 or 1% chance to block. Luck needs to exist too, lol.
2. Think of a way to balance damage vs 2h. Normally I would suggest half of 2h damage for each hand, but that sounds retarded even for me (in this game, I mean come on, Maras have DW lol) so keep that rather weak 1h damage on... Well to be fair, considering its not 2h, it should be 0.3-0.5 seconds faster attack speed. Give some bleed or perhaps piercing damage as a bonus to this fighting style.
3. Lock all blocking abilities and any tank abilities while equipping 2nd weapon. DW for a Chosen would be more of a hybrid tank dps class so blocking and actual tanking abilities must be out, same for the....erm morale attacks? Whatever its called. Also, no absorb because no actual shield, unless devs feel generous for a lucky shot, then add that 0.5 or 1% chance.
4. Boost Deflect with Parry, why? A good idea for Chosen to have some passive defense type bonuses without actual tanking abilities. Both fit extremely well for a tank dps hybrid, and could potentially turn into a full of fun mechanics build. This type of hybrid would concentrate on stacking Parry and Deflect passive with its own type of "defensive" abilities, and dash out damage with its dual wield capabilities. And flashy as hell too. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
5. Test out the capabilities of the true Chosen by giving them 3 choices, not 2. A dps ish chosen, a true tank chosen, or a Hybrid Chosen. See how the DW build would actually work out, take feedback and further balance the fighting style.

Some sample skills (will not use digits since I am super **** with numbers, sorry, I will leave this to the devs to calculate haha 😂) :

Riposte: Increase Parry and Deflect, and the more the chosen is attacked the faster his default attack gets, more than 3 enemies also decrease cooldown of all skills with each hit against him.

Cross-slash: All enemies in front of the chosen suffer in Evade and Parry proc, and take continuous bleeding damage (or piercing, who knows, I'm not even certain here myself; could even be lowering armor or even damage itself).

Iron-cutting Blades: Chosen slashes with both blades across the enemy, lowering their armor and severely decreasing movement speed, stacks up to 2 times (at 2nd stack, roots).

(Going a tier even higher)
True Iron-cutting Blades: Chosen strikes with incredible might, cutting right through his enemy's thick armor, causing severe bleeding and piercing damage and stuns the target. (this would be the high renown upgrade or something perhaps).

Twin Strike: Chosen strikes twice in rapid succession, with each strike inflicting an automatic critical hit. "Your Defences are Useless" adds additional damage to each hit. If the target is affected by Spinning Strike, it cannot move for a short time.

Spinning Strike: The Chosen strikes at the legs of surrounding enemies within melee range, imposing penalties to movement speed for a short time. If an opponent is already bleeding from Twin Strike, it slips and falls to the ground as well.

Your Defences are Useless: The Chosen is a true force of the supernatural when wielding two weapons, gaining permanent bonuses to melee critical chance and critical damage. Twin Strike now does additional bleeding damage.

Please devs I want opinions. I really both love DW and Chosen, so I have to know about your opinions of this fighting style on this class.

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GodlessCrom
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Posts: 1297

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#2 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:51 am

...have you played the actual game yet my dude? These would be totally overpowered. You can already spec your Chosen to do more damage with 2h. They should fix current stuff rather than add some more potentially broken stuff, like turning the most common tank choice in the game into a dual-wielding dps class when said faction already has a (very powerful) dual-wielding dps class.
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marisco
Posts: 182

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#3 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:51 am

Destro already have 4 dual wielding classes. Just pick one up.

Aebel
Posts: 125

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#4 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:03 am

They should give Chosen shotguns and shoulder mounted rocket launchers while they're at it.

Sarcastic comments aside like the other people posted here there are already a few DW melee dps on destro, and it's a slippery slope giving what is already the most overpopulated tank in the game even more to work with. They already do respectable damage 2h

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Garrus
Posts: 78

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#5 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:41 am

GodlessCrom wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:51 am ...have you played the actual game yet my dude? These would be totally overpowered. You can already spec your Chosen to do more damage with 2h. They should fix current stuff rather than add some more potentially broken stuff, like turning the most common tank choice in the game into a dual-wielding dps class when said faction already has a (very powerful) dual-wielding dps class.
Like I said, calculations are not up to me, I'm only giving ideas. Devs would be the ones to decide which abilities should have what. But who said the Tank Dps hybrid would be broken? He wouldn't be a pure dps, and he wouldn't have crazy tanking abilities. You say this like you know already what the class would be like, without even trying to check it first.

Edit: let me clarify I didn't say DW IS the current meta, what I meant is if you guys believe it to be so OP then it does need a rework to fix that issue. Or make everything equally OP to make nothing more OP then the other. That's pretty much he best work around.

And yes, I've been around for 4 years, based on what I have seen, DW Chosen as a hybrid wouldn't be broken. Why? Because no one tried it; it's still an unknown hand. Once you get to actually know it, you never know, it may be fun.

As for too many DW on Destro argument, all warriors under chaos should be able to DW? It's lore accurate. If dual wield is the current dps meta, then don't you think that dual wield needs a rework then? Also, order should have a way to counter the so called "imbalance" to counter the extra DW on Destro. Simple as

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Garrus
Posts: 78

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#6 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:49 am

Aebel wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:03 am They should give Chosen shotguns and shoulder mounted rocket launchers while they're at it.

Sarcastic comments aside like the other people posted here there are already a few DW melee dps on destro, and it's a slippery slope giving what is already the most overpopulated tank in the game even more to work with. They already do respectable damage 2h
Then keep that respective damage or go between the dmg of 1h and 2h and use that. Lore wise, Chosen wield many weapons but no ranged at all. I'm not asking for OP I'm asking for legit stuff here. If played well, it could even make Chosen an even more fun class.

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Xergon
Posts: 798

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#7 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:38 pm

I will only approve that when my WH will be able to use 2 Pistols or 2H Crossbow, and have one ability to build Finisher with range, till then (probably never) strong and determined NO to Dual Chosen.
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kkprfx
Posts: 175

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#8 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:56 pm

no
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Azerreth
Posts: 62

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#9 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:57 pm

Most if not ALOT of the art, and lore state that many chosen duel wield. I don't see the issue with them wielding two weapons as long as it's different than the mara. Everyone always wants a warrior of chaos who wields two weapons without a mutation, a duel wield chosen is the chance for that to actually happen. ( Could make it a tactic that lets you duel wield great-weapons for a fraction of their overall damage, but you equate to the same amount between the both of them?)

A chosen is exactly that, chosen by their respective god and most Khorne/Kharnethian Chosen refuse to hide behind shields once so ever, and prefer to go full on in with their combat. (Duel wield/2H) Immersion is key and I feel Azrael and Torque + Whoever else works on the balance team could really make this work. They could In theory create something truly amazing and to shut an Idea down based on your limited understanding and Bias of how this game works is absurd. I for one would rock a duel wield chosen and scream "Blood for the blood god!" all day long, and yes there are things that need to be fixed in the grand-scheme of things. But think of this retrospectively, Who is to say this change or addition would not aid the changes/nerfs/alterations that you desire by making there truly three specs for the chosen to run.

The mara might duel wield, however its more "I wield a weapon in this hand, while this one is a FREAKING CRAB CLAW OOOGAH BOOGAH". The feel of the two just by looking at them is completely different in every regard because one is using blessed dark weapons, and cleaving down foes left and right. The other is more monster than man, mad with the energies of the warp who rips and tears through foes with their "Bear" hand.(Hehe get it?) Also we could get a spin to win skill, the animation exists on the lion with whirling axe(Is it spinning blade? I forget.) So a duel wield chosen could focus on charging in and wreaking havoc with more aoe, perhaps aoe dots and dark magic just fluttering about them. (Please god give them a charge, not the run skill but a legitament charge which takes them to an enemy and stuns said enemy.)

WoW did it with the warrior and its specs, and while they are all a warrior they are different and feel unique as a whole. Arms is your two handed spec which focuses on heavy burst to slap people down; Sword and board is of course a tanky tank who does tanky things and tanky shenanigans. The duel wield spec is for more dueling and health steal, making them bleed and fueling yourself with said blood to regain health and further your berserker rage. I don't see why the chosen can't have the same treatment... could also maybe have the knight... potentially get it too? They are direct mirrors after all... and those sexy swords with runic writing.. I mean think about it.

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: Chaos Chosen with Dual Wield

Post#10 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:16 pm

To add to torq's comments, currently tanks have to choose between offense or defense with 2h vs snb.

DW gives +10% parry inherently and that is a defensive bonus. DW deals more auto attack damage than 2H. DW also has slightly more stats on their weapons versus 2H (which I disagree with).

Dual wield would break the class without a major rework of their abilities.

As for lore, never has held much water in warhammer even in AoR. Witch Elves would play more like choppas. Archmages would blow bright wizards out of the water. Resurrection magic is not readily accessible. Knight of the Blazing sun have no form of magic (auras). Warrior priests don't heal much at all. DoKs don't even exist. And sooooo much more. Mythic (rightly) adjusted the lore for gameplay reasons, chosen is no different.

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