ORvR Proposal

[BeautfulToad]

Also I think another huge problem is people going to keep and waiting.
What happened to getting BOs and them repairing the door/lord?

The supplies were added because people would afk at the flags for sometimes hours contributing nothing. It was actually very infuriating. It is a shame but that's why supplies were added.

If this is separate from the realm war, I am not sure there is much of a problem. Or any changes to flags have to take into account the realm war.

and how is carrying supplies eliminate afk? one carries supplies and half the warband is in afk.

Well, even if you look at the current system. the goal of one side is to take supplies, the goal of the other is to prevent the first side from taking suppies. But then why can't I see the enemy who is currently doing it? it would be better if I could see who and where at the moment carries supplies, so that I could intercept him, kill and take away supplies.

it is also not clear why various resources were made for destro and order.

The amount of people afking is a minority now, who can be booted when a warband leader notices. In the past system you could have entire warbands afking at flags.

There is an issue now for the outnumbered side. There is no RR, XP or loot to be had being outnumbered, which was not the case in single zone blobbing. The really good warband leaders on destro side, people like Gufrip, know this and won't stay in an RvR lake long if order have high AAO. It's better to move zone and push elsewhere. It's efficient in terms of progression.

That needs to be fixed as soon as possible, but I don't think it needs to result in massive changes to oRvR. In terms of efficiency, if the other side has several more players than your side, the most efficient tactic is to decide early which fort you will try to defend and let the side with more numbers get there (building enough contribution to get reservations only). This will mean all your defenders are in a single fort and you will have a chance of winning to get medallions. That is a problem with the current system, and the whole "dont reward defenders" was designed to make those kind of strategies less appealing, it also rewards you for going on the side that's able to push multiple zones.

The proposal that an outnumbered side will have its location given to the enemy would make the hard task of running supplies with AAO impossible.

[Tesq]

Also I think another huge problem is people going to keep and waiting.
What happened to getting BOs and them repairing the door/lord?

If BOs healed door/lord that was good. It prevents everyone from sitting in the keep.
And then being too outnumbered to do anything about it.

was tried and universally hated.

I dont know who this universally people are. RvR is no longer about pvp.
Its the people deciding what happens are the people who just want the easy way and no longer want to fight.

There is no fighting anymore, its like optional. You dont fight for BOs, you dont fight for resources. You dont fight for anything.
Fighting is an option.

Two forts being open at the sametime is another issue. But its not an issue for those who dont want to fight..
What does anyone have to fight over in this game anymore? Other than randomly at keep defs or running into each other, while trying not to run into eachother?

And dont say the players decide to play this way, because the game fully supports it.
What do we fight over anymore? The WBs ive been in recently actually go out of the way not to fight.
People leave zones to not fight.. What is this?

Can we stay away from ideas that in the end result in blobs? This whole concept of everyone must fight in one place is really getting old and tired.

What do you mean by blobs? More than 50 people fighting somewhere? You dont like a lot of fighting in an area? I dont understand.
And it wouldnt be just in one place, BOs/zones would unlock based on population. And if only 2 BOs were open at a time, what would be the problem? What do you have against a bunch of players in an area fighting? This is a pvp game..
am I in some weird alternate reality where fighting in a pvp game is bad?

first it's not pvp; its RvR which is totally different, this is not fortnite...

0-aim is not fight, aim is take capital in whatever mean possible
1-if you choose to fight
2-you choose where fight
3-you choose how fight



the problem we face is not if fight or not but the current flag system when fight happens dont spread ppl enough to the whole zones; we want more fight simultaneusly going on over the whole map for more objective; not just 1 big fight perma in the middle of the 2 wc....

[BeautfulToad]

Just to say, I agree with Tesq, the issue is catering for multiple fights across zones. The Battlefield mechanic could be part of a solution to that problem, but I think the current supply run mechanism is better than the old system because it does limit the extent of afking.

There is maybe a few things that could be done. Make seiging a bit quicker, removing the outer seige entirely, making it much harder to zone switch for a seige. Make keeps repair faster with AAO (perhaps based on AAO across T4 zones).

[drmordread]

Can we stay away from ideas that in the end result in blobs? This whole concept of everyone must fight in one place is really getting old and tired. You want a good BO/zone lock RvR system? Look no further than version 1.0 to 1.3. Just get rid of the VP bs and keep the BO/zone lock mechanics.
Hey ... if old school can work for armor wards, it can work for RvR too.

cant work, 4x diff timer will allow snowball from 1 flag to another one; need 1 big timer for all flags , ppl will be force to contest flags at the same time.

That is the whole point. Contest all flags at the same time. Add in the "safe timers" from Live Version 1.0 to 1.3, and a realm with 400% aao can STILL rank up their keep, especially if we get rid of the stupid resource carry and go back to resource ticks.

[drmordread]

Just to say, I agree with Tesq, the issue is catering for multiple fights across zones. The Battlefield mechanic could be part of a solution to that problem, but I think the current supply run mechanism is better than the old system because it does limit the extent of afking.

There is maybe a few things that could be done. Make seiging a bit quicker, removing the outer seige entirely, making it much harder to zone switch for a seige. Make keeps repair faster with AAO (perhaps based on AAO across T4 zones).

As a solo WH/WL/SW/AM (dps) I can guarantee you that there are more people afk on BO's now than before. (I quit playing destro because every class is so OP I got bored.)

Before we switched to supplies, people that went afk stopped getting rr/xp/inf the moment that the game flagged them as afk. (yes I know, the whole thing about afk players getting renown was fake news, a myth, a hoax. It never happened.)
Now, all you need to hold a BO is for one person to sit on it and spawn supplies. 6 times out 10, there is always an afk person on a BO.

[Tesq]

Can we stay away from ideas that in the end result in blobs? This whole concept of everyone must fight in one place is really getting old and tired. You want a good BO/zone lock RvR system? Look no further than version 1.0 to 1.3. Just get rid of the VP bs and keep the BO/zone lock mechanics.
Hey ... if old school can work for armor wards, it can work for RvR too.

cant work, 4x diff timer will allow snowball from 1 flag to another one; need 1 big timer for all flags , ppl will be force to contest flags at the same time.

That is the whole point. Contest all flags at the same time. Add in the "safe timers" from Live Version 1.0 to 1.3, and a realm with 400% aao can STILL rank up their keep, especially if we get rid of the stupid resource carry and go back to resource ticks.

ok but live didnt have a single timer for all the flags, it had 4 indipendents timers till 1.3.8; unless i missed some early war live system, plus live still didnt have a counter to 1 side outnumbering a lot the other; or well it have it but it was very bad one.....require all 4 flags to lock mean that outnumbered side could zerg one flag a time and tarpit attackers.

Imo we need a more fair system for both side which as i pointed out 3-4 times alredyaround in the forum consist.

-1 zone lock for all flags
-a numeric objective requirement malus for the outnumbering side, aka you need 1 flag more for generate supply every 20-40% aao (of course capped 160%, this mean that aao side can focus 3 flag instead 4 )
-aao side can rank 5 and lock (but need to be only for aao side because we need to be make it easier aswell than what we have now).

this it's a pretty simple meccanic to understand for those that play in the lake:

-timer is visible litteraly on map and we should alredy have old system implementation to use code wise
-debuff can show other 2 malus which is pretty simple for visibility and learning curve.


Moreover force spreading over the map (but only during keep ranking which is what we want) while it leave free to focus on siege when you dont need ranking. Since the concentration malus is alredy give trought bottleneck in case of keep defense.

[Alfa1986]

The supplies were added because people would afk at the flags for sometimes hours contributing nothing. It was actually very infuriating. It is a shame but that's why supplies were added.

If this is separate from the realm war, I am not sure there is much of a problem. Or any changes to flags have to take into account the realm war.

and how is carrying supplies eliminate afk? one carries supplies and half the warband is in afk.

Well, even if you look at the current system. the goal of one side is to take supplies, the goal of the other is to prevent the first side from taking suppies. But then why can't I see the enemy who is currently doing it? it would be better if I could see who and where at the moment carries supplies, so that I could intercept him, kill and take away supplies.

it is also not clear why various resources were made for destro and order.

The amount of people afking is a minority now, who can be booted when a warband leader notices. In the past system you could have entire warbands afking at flags.

There is an issue now for the outnumbered side. There is no RR, XP or loot to be had being outnumbered, which was not the case in single zone blobbing. The really good warband leaders on destro side, people like Gufrip, know this and won't stay in an RvR lake long if order have high AAO. It's better to move zone and push elsewhere. It's efficient in terms of progression.

That needs to be fixed as soon as possible, but I don't think it needs to result in massive changes to oRvR. In terms of efficiency, if the other side has several more players than your side, the most efficient tactic is to decide early which fort you will try to defend and let the side with more numbers get there (building enough contribution to get reservations only). This will mean all your defenders are in a single fort and you will have a chance of winning to get medallions. That is a problem with the current system, and the whole "dont reward defenders" was designed to make those kind of strategies less appealing, it also rewards you for going on the side that's able to push multiple zones.

The proposal that an outnumbered side will have its location given to the enemy would make the hard task of running supplies with AAO impossible.

Why is everyone so worried about people in afk ?! First, indeed, people who have received afk status may simply not get renown, no awards, no exp, and secondly, people who are very easy to kill in afk, and with dynamic play they will always be dead. In my opinion, this system lacks dynamics and meaning. you absolutely do not need to take and keep all 4 BOs, but only those nearest 2.

about zerging one side.
always more people will play for which side than the other, it’s not possible to achieve a perfect balance of the number of players.

if the imbalance becomes huge, then the most effective way to align it is to increase the stats of the weaker side (as an example, to give a bonus to DPS and def, to increase the speed of movement, or as an extreme way just to put limit the overpopulated side in no more then 50-100-200%.)

but there is another problem in my opinion, it is more profitable to attack than to defend.
It seems to me that people often go over to the zerg side only because they end up with much more rewards (20 k and more renown for each captured Keep, + 5 k and more for blocking each zone, + bags from each captured zone). defenders, even if they play better, still will not receive such awards

[Tesq]

You dont need to achive perfect balanace but if you spread the ppl over 4 spots it's easier allow the minor side to pick his battle if the system force only the bigger side to spread and allow the minor to pick his battle/ have to spread less more equally then we will have more fairness for all

[Raggaz]

Spreading us out all over the place does not equal strategy. The difference between EU prime being 4 WBs per side, its hard to go anywhere without running into opposition, which is great.
Compared to NA prime being 1 WB per side, plus 3 zones open and 12 BOs available, its a hunt to find the enemy sometimes. The fact the game is being built around not engaging the enemy to progress, adds to the difficulty of finding opposition, or creating any type of involvement at downtimes.
It also becomes a huge stalemate when only 1 WB is on at a time. And despite the attempts to make it about strategy, we usually find the closest point to one another and skirmish.

Im not sure who is in the majority, players who play the game to avoid the enemy or players who play the game to fight the opposition. Id think its people who log onto fight the enemy.
There is nothing wrong with strategy, giving us 10 different ways to progress that involves avoiding the enemy isnt good for times when hardly anyone is on.
The system should work for 4 WBs per side and 1 WB per side.

[Raggaz]

Can increase the amount of resource dropped from players?
Every 5 players drops a resource? Every 10 players? I think right now it is around 75-100.
Maybe make resource open so it is just a resource, this way order/destruction resources dont exist. They are just resource. Or make it so stealing the enemy resource is possible.

This way when we are doing battle there is more of a reason for it.