What would it take: organized warband

[Tesq]

no please, never do sc bigger than 18 vs 18 , history on war docet they are a pretty fail..... 3vs 3 is mangeable when it go 4vs 4 is just shitstorm of missplay from 1 side which he never saw aoe and tanks which dont use hold the lines, it would be terrible....

at that number of ppl you have to spec aoe and ppl instead just gona queue all sc and it will be basically unplayable. now even more that anywhere trainer is gone.

leave 24+ in rvr

[Sedok]

What change would be required to be made, in your opinion, to have you as a player (who doesn't normally join a warband) join or form a guild, establish voice communications, respec to optimize your warband composition and fight in RvR .

I know is asking a lot, but please keep responses free of spiteful complaints and unrealistic requests.

The lack of competitive, large-scale RvR is the reason why I haven't been able to invest in RoR the way I did AoR. I would love to see tens of guilds on each faction again, fielding multiple warbands each, battling tooth and nail every weekend for a shot at a city siege; I can play other games for far better PvP of all kinds, but for RvR, nothing came close to WAR. There is no more glorious sight than seeing your Bright Wizards and Slayers crash into a "zerg" and obliterate them. Seeing your tanks barely holding the line against an ocean of Destruction, foaming at the mouth for the kill. Powerful, chaotic magic, hordes of players fighting and dying in the thousands, glorious victories won with a handful of your guys left standing; it was the Warhammer tabletop game I loved, realized into an MMORPG. The fights we used to have on Vaul's Anvil could have rivaled E.V.E.'s someday, and it would be wonderful to have this server thrive in such a manner.

However, I believe that such a culture is no longer possible in the modern gaming era, the primary reason being the mindset of the average gamer today (not just MMO player); there's a real lack of competitiveness, an inability to conceptualize a larger culture to invest in and sacrifice to, and this pervasive, extreme casualness where they put next to no effort into the game (learning their class, taking on social responsibilities, etc.). I don't know how to change the mindset, or whether its even possible now that's so widespread.

There are a number of systemic issues on RoR that also contribute to my lack of interest and the prevention of that old culture from forming:

-AoE Target Limit/Reduction Of AoE Damage: This is the same criticism I, and all of my old guild, had with Mythic; if you take away the player's ability to combat "zerg"s, then don't be shocked when they become the dominant meta. For awhile, I took people's complaining of "zerg"s as whining, but the more I looked under the hood, the more I realized that while their premises were wrong, the conclusion was correct. Take a look at the Target Limit: if a 6-man jumps and bombs a 12-man, they can kill 9 players in the initial jump, rendering the opposing force to 50% of their current strength. Not bad, but what about in larger fights? If a 12-man jumps and bombs a 24-man, they can only bring it down to 15 players ideally, meaning they are still significantly outnumbered when their momentum wears off (and then have to contend with the morale game). If your group plays well, and the opponent makes some mistakes, you could win that fight. However, what about at the warband level? If a 24-man jumps a 48-man, they can only bring them down to 35, still nearly a 50% larger force than their own. At warband-levels of play, the target limit is a massive, massive nerf to an organized warband's capability.

-The Morale Game: Morales, again like AoR, became dominant because it became impossible to contend with larger forces or dislodge an entrenched enemy without them. With the morale gain nerf here, the morale meta now heavily favors Destruction because they have the only AoE morale pump and the only AoE morale drain in the game. In addition, the Zealot's morale gain tactic allows them to acquire FM faster, to be able to better combat heavy damage loads; and Chosen & Black Orc's morale on block tactics allow them to build to Raze much, much faster than Order.

-The Disrupt Changes: This is a big one, and the only reason its not being talked about is because there's little organized warband play here. Against a decent warband, where tanks are using HtL well and members are spec'd for Deft Defender, magical rdps can not bring substantial pressure on an opposing force. The Magus can kind of get around this by cheesing it with Firestorm, but that's it. Even a well-geared BW/Sorc will have trouble bringing the thunder in that environment.

-Lack of Cities: Without an overall-arching goal, the campaign becomes a matter of people locking zones for loot and renown, not for anything greater. Without a challenging goal to push for, there's nothing bonding large guilds together, except the personal relationships. Why put in all that effort organizing, training, and fighting when you can just pug-surf and achieve the same results?

-The Current ORvR System: Unless a defending force has 80 - 100% AAO, you are not taking that zone, and that's for pug warbands. An organized warband defending a keep? You aren't taking it; the Lord is simply too big of a factor, the AoE is too powerful an advantage, the Terminate too buggy, and the 3rd floor defense meta is impenetrable because of the AoE target limit and the size of the ramp. And even if you managed to take the keep somehow, you'd then have to spread your forces over 4 objectives, while the defending force only has to split over 2. Good **** luck.

[Valarion]

Some kind of temporary advantage, bonus or rewards for joining a wb perhaps. The bonus doesnt necessarily have to be huge, its could be very minor and grow with the size of the group.

One idea is to allow a wb to have wb-only flag carrier (similiar to guild flags) that gives movement or stat bonuses, etc. Another idea is to allow the wb members to glow or give the leader a big single use attack or heal on a huge CD. Individuals will at least feel like they are contributing to the strength more than I think they do now.

Some other bonuses or titles should be given to the wonderful wb leaders that lead ever single night.

[tazdingo]

remove morales and change all associated abilities and tactics

i'm not even kidding

[mogt]

the problem are the mind from the players, as eg: Order attack our keep, and a few people people frpm destro attack the ram and the many other destro players stay at the wall and looking, and a few wrote, "i dont jump in the ram, because, i can be die and that are free rr for the enemy, but that the ram go be faster down, they have no interest for this, and that is problem.

yeah that is very easy to say: oh the ORVR system is bad or other things, but many players want just killing eachother and other things, have no interest in their heads. the DEV doing a very good job, but one thing they can never changed, and that is the brain from the players.

that multiple zones are open, that is very good, and if the players cry why are multiple zones are open, look at old youtube AOR Videos, then i hope they see why? i give a keyword. that keyword is "stratagy",

many players what i can see, in the most onlinegames are easy mode players, that is very very sad

[kweedko]

WAR always been about PUG WB zergs + Soloers vs Premades. Forcing people to join the WB gonna ruin all the fun for two out of three playstyle in WAR. Direction on WB gameplay is kinda wrong cause of it.

So how to improve WB gameplay - it's simple WB wide buffs - and we have it in old WAR - "guild Banners" - but they need a little tweak - to not forcing player that have a Banner to hold it in char hands - removing all skills from this char is a total miss-design - just place it on the back of the character - an let them participate with their skills like all other players. Of course they must lose the banner when died. That little change, will improve WB gameplay, cause people will join ше the cause of buffs, and gonna use banners more often - it's gonna be reason to create a guild and level it - cause with it you may chose the buffs on standards.

[Dajciekrwi]

Y dont have any instruments, any awards, any methods to put ppl in organised or unorganised warbands.
Such contempltion is UNREALISTIC, totally unrealistic, and pls for good all of us accept that.
In effect in place of joining ppl, y will lost players.
I can post a bilions reasons for that, but i trust in your inteligence, so agains pls reconsider any plans!
Good day and good luck.

[Ormix]

The only thing that would make me want to play in warband zerg action is a greater cause, like capturing enemy capital city or something epic like that. As it is right now, I find it to be extremely boring and pointless to zerg

On the other hand, I have always been having the most fun playing with my bros in open RvR. That is the best PvP I have ever had in my life. All zerg\premade\arenas\bg(scenario) is just so boring (for me that is) and can be found in any other game. Open world pvp with objectives and lots of roamers only exsist in WAR and thats the only thing that keeps me and my friends paying the game

[dolleater]

Guild progression would motivate me for larger things. If a guild had the quest or goal to do something (idk, kill 1000 players, capture a keep, lock a zone, even PvE things like PQs, whatever) that would progress the guild in some ways.

That could convince me to do keep sieges or even wb vs wb combat, things i dont do since they arent that stimulating. Having a common goal is a good way to get people together. If you can also compete with others, that just makes it more motivating (such as having timed quests that guilds compete to achieve).

just my 2 cents

[tazdingo]

Guild progression would motivate me for larger things. If a guild had the quest or goal to do something (idk, kill 1000 players, capture a keep, lock a zone, even PvE things like PQs, whatever) that would progress the guild in some ways.

this is a great idea, glory will motivate leaders more than anything else. city statues and keep flags were nice but never that big a deal. constant targets to aim for in return for cool rewards would encourage me to join a guild and get involved more than anything else. like if at the end of a very long flip, some of us get nothing but the leaders are like well done lads, we're 300/1000 to all getting a new cloak, or trophy, weapon aura, or just our names on a ladder on the forums