Xfaction timer ?

[Ramasee]

I've had to spend the last week power leveling a destro toon so that I could join my guild when we switch to running a destro warband for the evening. (I was an order only guy until then)

Its extraordinarily boring for us to play when there are 120 order and 40 destro on in the lake. We almost always start warband events on order, and decide to switch if we can't find sufficient action.

[peterthepan3]

Maybe start having friends and yourself just start black listing the fair weather guys until they get the hint?

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Mystriss]

We already know the devs can sort out the "second accounts" bypass. See: ban evasion. And RoR is a small enough community that they can actually police that stuff.

I do agree that there is some onus on the players at large, especially the leaders if there is indeed mass guild switches to take advantage of joining the winning side, such players should be shunned by the community for something along the lines of poor sportsmanship. I get that one might be like "oh hey I could level my other guy easy right now instead of getting steamrolled" thought that many switchers probably have in such situations. I can't straight up call it cheating, but it's pretty close. We are not allowed to intentionally farm willing opponents for renown gains, why should we be allowed to intentionally farm unwilling participants in such a way?

But to reiterate, and agree with others posting, those who switch to play on the losing side should be allowed, encouraged even, to do so. I have little desire to not have a fight out there at all because changing realms gets completely locked down for everyone. I'd rather be steam rolled all night than have no fight at all because peeps just quit playing for the day/night.


Ideally, I think something like a log out option on the WAR menu to switch to the losing side that locks them into whatever opposing character in that tier. So like a T4 toon getting rolled could still play the opposing realm in T1 if they wanted, but couldn't switch to the winning side in T4 - or something like that. This would also give folks an option other than just logging out if they can't handle getting wrecked on the field. (Though I personally would argue that if one can't handle getting wrecked they might want to reevaluate their idea of what PvP is as a whole - we want the enemy to have fun too, after all. True Fact: 70% of my long term IRL gaming friends were originally my enemies. Blood ties.)

[DokB]

The xrealm bogeyman was nipped in the bud when they introduced no bag rewards when you swap realm toons. It’s already bad enough I don’t get bags when I’m not xrealming despite lots of contribution in zone. A lockout timer is dumb IMO and shouldn’t be entertained. You already sacrifice rewards to do so and “swapping to the winning side” (read: swapping to whichever side is blobbing harder) already forfeits you from farming that aao bonus and your rolls at the end of a zone get heavily influenced by realm population anyway so is it even that big of deal anymore?
If I wanna fight some group but I am locked out from swapping sides because I dipped my toe into the lake 20 minutes ago, then no one ends up having fun.

Maybe you could look at it once Forts/Cities are implemented but right now RvR has no real significance other than being a gigantic zone to DM people and for pugs to grind their face against the PvE Lord in the keep.
Inb4 muh realm pride

[Wam]

Its a psychological issue, a player issue more than a real issue in my opinion

Spoiler:

It's weak mentality, only "play if winning" or a chance of win...

Too many players give up easily... especially on order side in comparison but it applies to both its more a pug thing though than a realm (seen first hand for and against) lack of leadership lack of organisation plays a part... just a general defeatist attitude and pessimism (until shown different)

Its same as SC's "let them just win" mentality so everyone gets loot and it goes faster just on a bigger scale...

Alot of fair weathers affraid of AAO and to fight hard... but AAO means guaranteed action, sure sometimes it can be too much np but thats better than alternative of no action, no fights, just snoozefest.

As King Ocara would say engage brain.

Spoiler:

Bad decision making kills realm morale by clueless people who always push on region chat to "lets attack keep everyone" with 60 aao... that's not x-realm fault... that is purely players and mentality...

I've pugged and seen people used weird tactics in bad situations, like make no attempt to defend keep just run away from keep defense, high ground and choke and npc help... to die randomly in open field and this is all still the "x realmers fault" because of bad decision making.

Too many times there is bad reading of situations/maps by pugs, especially order pugs who have little or wrong idea of campaign... they want to attack keeps all the time when they have AAO and can't even win open field battles... they attack keep fail miserabley then warband disbands and complain about x-realmers? As King Ocara would say on Destro engage brain... but nope easier to blame them x realmers and take no accountability for poor decision making.

This was even when Keep's was worth 1k renown, you would have random joe pipe up loudly and will side to hey lets attack keep... even if other side is more organised, has momentum, has more numbers... it fails horribley everytime and it kills the "morale" of that realm because they feel they cannot win / lock the zone because they chose worse possible time to attack...

It's like many times when we was on Destro, order was close to taking keep we show up, we kill them and save the keep... then AAO reversal and they logged off because they know they have little relative chance if we have a strong setup and are determined to defend... sometimes our raids was over in 10 minutes because of this mentality of "fairweathers" who only can play when have all the advantages i.e numbers to purely zerg in swarm mode.

Underdog or snoozefest... if no option to underdog thats boring

Spoiler:

Like others have said i know we have moved to underdog side to balance AAO... if not we are just purely zerging... when one side dominates the other it leaves bad taste in the mouth and little action, little action means no fun when you are fighting over the scraps. That is not the way to play the game in my eyes. Too many raid's cancelled early, in PRIMETIME EU on destro side because of this... so now we play order more to help balance it a bit better so less tedious / more action for all.

I see some other people do similar... they look for action.

My concern is with people who give up... cry wolf and do not organise themselves compared to people who look for action

There is no boogeyman only eternal war.

So smash enemy like you are meant to do, that is the nature of rvr/pvp... they give up too easily, you are now locked into a pvsnooze fest with dominant realm?

What is the issue with it? if people want to purely zerg? they get less rewards? they get less fun? running sub par warband setups is more of a issue than x-realming will ever be.

Spoiler:

If people want to x-realm to just zerg... one you don't want teammate like that, two more people to kill and more challenge... what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Lack of pug leaders / open warbands... alot of people do not want to lead, if they don't see a pug wb they can join then they more likely to not co-ordinate themselves. When things are going well and numbers are strong, pug overflows happens... when pugs are being smashed in open (morale is low, people ragequit after one wipe, constant swapping of players) then overflows don't happen.

Another thing is timezones makes the issue more complicated... we have a spread playerbase so this sometimes makes spikes in population joining / leaving.

Edit * Also if x-realm is as bad as people say or make it out to be which i don't believe it is... look at Incentives / lures for underdog instead of punish people searching for action and balance?

Spoiler:

improve incentives of underdog that cannot be exploited... and isn't a buff to combat mechanics (too op/game breaking exploitable)

i.e even more renown gain for AAO kills (this is one thing harder to exploit, loot bags in mail logging off / going pve zone etc is too manipulated and also same with a organised warband and any combat buffs will be too broken unless its for extreme AAO 100+ )... improved renown gain should attract more organised players to underdog and encourage people to fight more instead of x-realm zerg wave and balance out population but im not sure its even needed to be honest, I think its always blown out of proportion.. there's always a few variables

Even with more renown pugs will still be pugs at the end of the day, and if they fight / hide / run away is pretty random

[Natherul]

Also to note, we have not fully decided on the way we want lockouts to be. Some versions of the plan include letting you go to the weaker side.

That said I don't understand why people do that at all as I would have personally preferred it locking you entirely to only ever run on one faction. But thats my personal opinion and not something I would push as the way for RoR to operate

[RuffRyder]

In my opinion most of the complaints about x-realming when losing are just exaggerated and a cheap excuse.

It would be a thing if truly a full guild or group x-realmed to another side (not like TUP with the goal to reach more balance at all) to fully switch the force, but I never saw those happening so it will stay a myth.

Like Wam said, it is a psychological issue of some players, from my pov when i start playing I like to play one and only one char for the next hours. If it turns out and I get bored or it's just not fun, I just log to another to do some PvE/crafting/whatever or quit instantly, that's it. Others may want to be successful with whatever char they have, others fight against all odds literally. Everyone can decide what to do, unless 75% or more just switch factions.

That said I don't understand why people do that at all as I would have personally preferred it locking you entirely to only ever run on one faction. But thats my personal opinion and not something I would push as the way for RoR to operate

While no player here pays for playing that would be a possibility, simple as that: One client, two buttons, choose faction and be bound to it for let's say 4 or 8 hours, client-side locked.

[peterthepan3]

Would it be possible to differentiate between rvr and sc for xrealm lockout? 4-8 hour lockouts could have pretty adverse effects on the small scale community - where fights can be organised at last minute notice, requiring guildies who may be leveling an alt on opposing side etc.

Perhaps lockout could trigger upon entering rvr zones?

If not possible, then is it really worth implementing measures that may have an adverse effect on a lot of people, just to punish a few idiots who will then simply look for another means of gaming the system (especially when considering reasons already mentioned, e.g. you lose contribution - what more do you need to dissuade you from xrealming!)

[Natherul]

Would it be possible to differentiate between rvr and sc for xrealm lockout? 4-8 hour lockouts could have pretty adverse effects on the small scale community - where fights can be organised at last minute notice, requiring guildies who may be leveling an alt on opposing side etc.

Perhaps lockout could trigger upon entering rvr zones?

If not possible, then is it really worth implementing measures that may have an adverse effect on a lot of people, just to punish a few idiots who will then simply look for another means of gaming the system (especially when considering reasons already mentioned, e.g. you lose contribution - what more do you need to dissuade you from xrealming!)

Anything is possible. Its a matter of how much time we want to add to it and if we deem it worth that time. Again the system is not fully decided on yet.

[Mystriss]

That said I don't understand why people do that at all as I would have personally preferred it locking you entirely to only ever run on one faction. But thats my personal opinion and not something I would push as the way for RoR to operate

My answer to that would be because letting players experience both sides of the coin keeps them in game longer, and perhaps here on RoR its something along the lines of letting folks experience the full spectrum of warhammer.

There's a social component too, might be higher in RoR due to smaller community; many times during live I wanted to play on Destro just to hang out with all my favorite enemies - I never got around to really playing destro in WAR (might have had a level 30 zealot,) but I did join and play with my enemies in later games.

And some peeps do it because they don't really think about the damage it does to everyone's enjoyment of oRvR. Some folks, a lot of folks, have a thought and never quite make it to any kind of "consequences thought process." Its like people driving on the roads right - they think "I need the other lane" and they whip into it; they never really make it to any next stage thinking like "if I whip into the other lane without looking I could hit someone, hell I could kill someone or myself, therefore I should look first." I call it "shallow thinking" - never makes it past the cover to actually read the book. A lot of trolls have the same kind of "shallow thinking."