Blackguard

[Bozzax]

Specialization points needed for basic guard mitigation / avoidance (~25% Parry or ~15% Block)
KOTBS 3pts
SM 0pts
IB 5pts
BO 0pts, 3pts
Chosen 0pts

Other tanks average: 3
Blackguard: 11

Specialization points needed for basic AOE CC (Snare or Stagger)
KOTBS 9pts
SM -
IB 9pts
BO 7pts
Chosen 9pts

Other tanks average: 8,5 (SM excluded)
Blackguard: 13

Without basic guard damage avoidance and basic AOE CC BGs are never going to be valid for team.

Can we please fix the mid tree as the lead designer must have been drunk when finalising it?

Anger Drives Me > 3pts - just like all other tanks
Wave of Scorn > 9pts – well you’ve guessed it … like all other tanks
Feeding on Pain > 11 pts – to the exact same spot where other tanks has their AP-reduction tactic

[Tesq]

well Bg suffer more on the defensive side, the rvr spec is 2h which mean he need to have the same survability of the 2h sm or is a no go, the problem all lais in the parry tactic, be too high on mid path it should be on 5 point like chosen parry tactic. That way you would had more point to spend to get other def tools or supp on third path.
The 2h support os really good for rvr debuff 9 ppl for:

-10% block & 10%parry
(basically you negate most of order tanks defense)

-10% crit debuff


-snare : this is actually missing from the 2h spec where it sould be viable by lower it in the path, to make it simple: blade of ruin need a rework to be something def , and snare and blade of ruin need to be swap each other.

where kobs buff 6 ppl, bg debuff 9 so actually 1 bg x wb is essentialy a good trade of as a second tank for the party, you can create a debuff party with that in mind which will make all other 3 perform better and also have nice CC (2h chosen , 2h bg, pull magus, aoe mara, shammy, dok


BG s+b is ok in survability; some stuff could be lowered in path to make it have the same quantity of IB tools, ib get everything between 5-7 pt while bg almost all between 7-11 that mean IB can spend a lot more points, also bg is hate hungry more than IB and thus being based it's def meccanic on hate for tough/parry some point cost should be toned down a bit. and also the requisit of max buff from these tactic should be lowered due to IB getting all passive and kobs have a so strong damage reduction skill.

that's is just a summary... but i think currently there is no time for this boxxas,i also think this discussion wil be lock cos it regard the balance forum

[Bozzax]

Some (me included) has suggested changing Monstrous Ruin and Blade of Ruin to compensate the 2h tree for loosing KD. My suggestion would be to leave them untouched as they both have very specific uses.

Simply moving stuff around so BGs gets what other tanks have would make 2h very viable with the 10s Crimson.

[Tesq]

i am up too to move things around too, bg suffer more from a bad skill disposition rather than real quality loss indeed. But blade of ruin is what just take 1 skill disposition spot in the grand scheme of things it should just be replaced with something else, or be moved out of path and something from path should be moved inside.

[Bozzax]

. but i think currently there is no time for this boxxas,i also think this discussion wil be lock cos it regard the balance forum

The changes I listed can be tested by editing the abilities table in the DB.

Why lock it? The stuff I'm listing are bringing BG in line with what other tanks already have (ALL* other tanks)

Basic guard damage avoidance
Other tanks average: 3
Blackguard: 11

Basic CC
Other tanks average: 8,5 (SM excluded)
Blackguard: 13

* Except SMs are missing basic AOE CC as well

[Bozzax]

i am up too to move things around too, bg suffer more from a bad skill disposition rather than real quality loss indeed. But blade of ruin is what just take 1 skill disposition spot in the grand scheme of things it should just be replaced with something else, or be moved out of path and something from path should be moved inside.

I'd move the stuff I've listed, 3 abilities as it would make BG mid tree aligned with how ALL other tanks are designed

[Tesq]

you know they are pretty strict on the matter things regard changes stuff should be handle in balance discussion rather than suggestions, general discussion could handle a "what you think of bg" thread etc with weakness and stuff to change but not a direct balance thread. i saw my thread lock cuz i give some kind of priority order that ye was meant logically but not of course to force them to that now: just for the sake of keep things clear in section you know

[Bozzax]

i am up too to move things around too, bg suffer more from a bad skill disposition rather than real quality loss indeed. But blade of ruin is what just take 1 skill disposition spot in the grand scheme of things it should just be replaced with something else, or be moved out of path and something from path should be moved inside.

Balance forum isn't open else I'd ofc post OP there. There is a clear why and how it disqualifies BGs from team play.

Without 13pts in the mid tree a BG can't fulfil the basic tasks of a tank. All other tanks need 9 or less specialisation points for to get basic avoidance and some CC. SM lacks CC but has other values especially in the PROC meta.

(BoR is used to trigger the +15% crit with SnB just before channeling plus it is an ok dot. It is a burst/hate building combo.)

[Tesq]

i am up too to move things around too, bg suffer more from a bad skill disposition rather than real quality loss indeed. But blade of ruin is what just take 1 skill disposition spot in the grand scheme of things it should just be replaced with something else, or be moved out of path and something from path should be moved inside.

BoR is used to trigger the +15% crit before channeling plus it is an ok dot (for SnB BG). It is a burst thing

well, doing more damages it's not your work, and i hardly see as you have space for slot something like the 15% tactic when you tactics need to go all for def purpose as your supp tools are all outside, maybe in sc where less damages go on you.
If you really need a dot then it should be put out of mastery and anyway BG have a lot of single skill purpose like the general tank agro skill that also buff tough with tactic, that could be really easily made in damages + dot since bg had in live agro problem thus resolving 2 things: the bad position and the need of blade of ruin spot and 1 problem of bg in live.

[Bozzax]

Tesq I know you like full def I'm telling you why BoR has value if you play team use SnB and don't spec def.

1. Strong dot that procs +15% crit 5s as it costs hate
2. Hard hitting 3s Channel that builds hate from crits and proc like crazy (COVs, FF)

These are a pressure combo for SnB (even 2h)