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Blackguard

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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Lektroluv
Suspended
Posts: 243

Re: Blackguard

Post#41 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:28 pm

Ninepaces wrote: -with the str pot, tough buff applied any time, and hateful strike tactic applied at 90 hate stats are 820 strength, 930 toughness, 55% parry. Maybe I can get 875 str with max gear. That's without RD and with 20 renown points into strength. Impressive on paper (I recall a BO that does more damage than me telling me he was 600 strength/600 tough) but sadly this is not enough to compete with BO for an offense tank slot. Its become apparent to me tank support damage doesnt come from traditional strength buffed abilities but from additional stuff like loudmouth or abilities that proc other things like covenants multiple times. Think swordmaster dot procs for example. BG doesnt really have the tools to multi proc except for maybe enraged beating, and to take that and the mandatory AOE snare and the other stuff I lose heal debuff/ap drain and still need 40/50 or 40/60. But I'm still looking at alternative builds for 40/50.

This is sadly true, i always prefered 2hand weapon tanks, on my kotbs and my chosen (kotbs was quite better in 2h, mainly because it was launched pretty overpowered, and chosen already was nerfed at kotbs launch time)
But on blackguard, i found myself not reaching any decently point of damage dealing, and forced myself to try shield and sword and go tank way, but lacking any CC (need block for knowdown forcing yourself to go sword and shield and needing many hate for long duration or otherwise is just a normal one, needing hate for make Knowback shine because a granny can punt you harder than a blackguard with 15 hate, and needing 14 points for buy a 10 sec snare with 20 sec cooldown,etc)

As damage dealer way, the damage is not great, and as tank, you lack the tools, or those tools need block and beign 100 hate for beign minimaly competitive...that ends producing a high desire of erase the character.

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Ninepaces
Posts: 313

Re: Blackguard

Post#42 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:33 pm

Tesq wrote:You can't put a party tactict lower than the tough, the tough increase % is more base than the parry increase also the only comparable tactic it' mixed defense and it's on 5pt
Yeah Id be fine with toughness tact at 3, block channel 5, parry at 7, aoe snare at 9

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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: Blackguard

Post#43 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:17 pm

Ok I just read through this entire thread. I have not played a BG before, but I have always wanted to. I do have, however, a SM/Chosen/KOBS and a tier 2 IB.

The IB and BG are supposed to be mirrors of eachother correct?

So this is a stupid question, but I know IB is very strong, and seems the BG is very weak (probably the weakest of all the tanks).

So there must be an easy solution here. What does the IB have that makes them so much better than the BG? I know ONE of the aspects here is the IB/WL dont have as much overlap as the Mara/BG. So thats ONE thing going on here, but move that aside for now, as a "solo-roamer" lets just say.... The IB seems to be a pretty formidable opponent where the BG doesnt seem to be.

I know IB has Oathbound which provides a huge amount of defensive ability with 25% more parry. The BG's "Parry" tactic is so far up that same tree... So what I have seen or heard here is to what? Have Anger Drives me swap places with Terrifying Foe?

Would that even still be fair? Many classes like Chosen/IB will have a fixed 25% Parry for 10+ seconds on just using 1 ability. The BG needs to sit on his hatred to keep his up? I dont know the BG well, but that doesnt seem like a great deal...
Sulfuras - Knight
Viskag - Chosen
Ashkandi - Swordmaster
Syzzle - Bright Wizard
Curz - Marauder
Andrithil - Blackguard

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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Blackguard

Post#44 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:35 pm

It's not what IB does better than BG, it's what BO/Ch do so much better than BG. If BG was an order tank it wouldn't be that bad in terms of getting into groups. If SM had an armor debuff IB would be looked at the same light BG is atm tbh.
<Lords of the Locker Room> <Old School>

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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: Blackguard

Post#45 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:48 pm

Jaycub wrote:It's not what IB does better than BG, it's what BO/Ch do so much better than BG. If BG was an order tank it wouldn't be that bad in terms of getting into groups. If SM had an armor debuff IB would be looked at the same light BG is atm tbh.
Gotcha, so the problem IS the overlap between the Mara and what other Destro tanks bring to the party over the BG and how it fits in the meta.

So, even after reading the entire thread, what is the consensus here as to how to fix the BG without making them OP. I mean it seems that compared to both BO and Chosen the BG deals less damage (not that its super important for tanks) but also brings less to the table in terms of mitigating damage for the group...
Sulfuras - Knight
Viskag - Chosen
Ashkandi - Swordmaster
Syzzle - Bright Wizard
Curz - Marauder
Andrithil - Blackguard

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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Blackguard

Post#46 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:51 pm

>10 sec cd punt
>remove block requirement for KD
>add morale pump (in current morale enviroment)
>buff blade of ruin

That's pretty much it, people can cry about not getting parry/block whatever buff easily but it's not even a problem
<Lords of the Locker Room> <Old School>

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: Blackguard

Post#47 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:01 am

Well i have submitted the part about bozzax's suggestion to switch WoS and FoF to proposals and Tesq submitted the part about switching the parry tactic to standardize mastery points for avoidance

Im sure once the Flmaes of Fate/pounce/squig header threads run their course the devs will let us disscuss the proposals and finally begin taking the steps to bring it in line
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YUKO
Posts: 158

Re: Blackguard

Post#48 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:16 am

Wow. I see Blackguard as the most functional class in the game and all this is... whining about small things I don't know or particulary care about even as a BG player.

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: Blackguard

Post#49 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:25 am

YUKO wrote:Wow. I see Blackguard as the most functional class in the game and all this is... whining about small things I don't know or particulary care about even as a BG player.
well then i see your wrong

cause if you really were a bg player you would be able to see the issues and care about them
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YUKO
Posts: 158

Re: Blackguard

Post#50 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:30 am

TenTonHammer wrote:
YUKO wrote:Wow. I see Blackguard as the most functional class in the game and all this is... whining about small things I don't know or particulary care about even as a BG player.
well then i see your wrong
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