WElf Nerf

[Ksekwlothreftis]

2000 dmg/ 3 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
180 dmg/ 0,25 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
And she got healed the same and hd the target.

For comperation:
Full glass cannon slayer bigest dmg ability with crit is 2000. Aganist armor aganist toughness and he sacreficed everything to hit big.

The healer dok has a similar covenant than kiss dmg proc and self heal it has a 2 sec cd, welf has 0.25 sec cd.

Its absurd its unfair.
Its a zero risk, high reward spec.

Its coz a lot of fustration lot of problem.

Where you getting that 180dmg per 0.25s there champ? Kiss procs roughly every 5-8 seconds, not per 0.25s. 2000 damager per 3s, what is that, cant be Witchbrew as that has a 10s CD.

Kiss has a proc chance % and internal CD I believe. Both Witchbrew and Kiss are reduced by toughness.

Where's this evidence you speak of?

He doesn't understand maths and per chance procs man. This whole argument section is pointless. I also don't know where that high damage comes from Witchbrew, the base damage is like 280x6 = 1680 spread over ~4 gcds.

[SuperStar]

2000 dmg/ 3 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
180 dmg/ 0,25 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
And she got healed the same and hd the target.

For comperation:
Full glass cannon slayer bigest dmg ability with crit is 2000. Aganist armor aganist toughness and he sacreficed everything to hit big.

The healer dok has a similar covenant than kiss dmg proc and self heal it has a 2 sec cd, welf has 0.25 sec cd.

Its absurd its unfair.
Its a zero risk, high reward spec.

Its coz a lot of fustration lot of problem.

Where you getting that 180dmg per 0.25s there champ? Kiss procs roughly every 5-8 seconds, not per 0.25s. 2000 damager per 3s, what is that, cant be Witchbrew as that has a 10s CD.

Kiss has a proc chance % and internal CD I believe. Both Witchbrew and Kiss are reduced by toughness.

Where's this evidence you speak of?

There is a portal abilityviewer i link it

https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/list

Ability dmg formula:
Base dmg + x*bonus damage + x*weapon dmg

The witchbrew and the kiss dmg is too high.
Aganist base dmg the toughness wont work.
These abilites are magic dmg so armor either.

With tactic and items and 1,5 speed sentinel weapons it can proc very often. It has a 0,25 cd. Amd its also healherself and healdebuff.

Dok has a similarcovenant with 2 sec cd not 0,25 cd.
This is why the def welf is a zero risk high rewad class and many of us feel fustration and unfair.

They can do this with zero offensive stat. They put everything on def. Regen armor toughness. They have all the ability duble jum woundsdebuff magic dots what is stackable, healdebuff insta stealth stealth, toughness debuff. Stagger kd. I think this one class has almost everything whats int the game. They dont have pet and cant guard even if they could based on defnsive stat.

And the only problem they hit to hard without invest into offensive stat this is the problem.

[nat3s]

2000 dmg/ 3 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
180 dmg/ 0,25 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
And she got healed the same and hd the target.

For comperation:
Full glass cannon slayer bigest dmg ability with crit is 2000. Aganist armor aganist toughness and he sacreficed everything to hit big.

The healer dok has a similar covenant than kiss dmg proc and self heal it has a 2 sec cd, welf has 0.25 sec cd.

Its absurd its unfair.
Its a zero risk, high reward spec.

Its coz a lot of fustration lot of problem.

Where you getting that 180dmg per 0.25s there champ? Kiss procs roughly every 5-8 seconds, not per 0.25s. 2000 damager per 3s, what is that, cant be Witchbrew as that has a 10s CD.

Kiss has a proc chance % and internal CD I believe. Both Witchbrew and Kiss are reduced by toughness.

Where's this evidence you speak of?

There is a portal abilityviewer i link it

https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/list

Ability dmg formula:
Base dmg + x*bonus damage + x*weapon dmg

The witchbrew and the kiss dmg is too high.
Aganist base dmg the toughness wont work.
These abilites are magic dmg so armor either.

With tactic and items and 1,5 speed sentinel weapons it can proc very often. It has a 0,25 cd. Amd its also healherself and healdebuff.

Dok has a similarcovenant with 2 sec cd not 0,25 cd.
D

Yes I know Dalen's ability viewer.

Witchbrew and Kiss damage is not too high. They cannot crit and they ARE reduced by toughness and resists.

Yes I use 1.5 and 1.6 sent weapons, but NO Kiss does not proc every 0.25s, it procs every 5-8s as it has a % chance on melee swing, it is NOT every melee swing. Here is a fight I recently had with a decent WL:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/61722513

Kiss did 2.2k damage over a 90s duel, that's tiny. Witchbrew did 3.5k.

[SuperStar]

Where you getting that 180dmg per 0.25s there champ? Kiss procs roughly every 5-8 seconds, not per 0.25s. 2000 damager per 3s, what is that, cant be Witchbrew as that has a 10s CD.

Kiss has a proc chance % and internal CD I believe. Both Witchbrew and Kiss are reduced by toughness.

Where's this evidence you speak of?

There is a portal abilityviewer i link it

https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/list

Ability dmg formula:
Base dmg + x*bonus damage + x*weapon dmg

The witchbrew and the kiss dmg is too high.
Aganist base dmg the toughness wont work.
These abilites are magic dmg so armor either.

With tactic and items and 1,5 speed sentinel weapons it can proc very often. It has a 0,25 cd. Amd its also healherself and healdebuff.

Dok has a similarcovenant with 2 sec cd not 0,25 cd.
D

Yes I know Dalen's ability viewer.

Witchbrew and Kiss damage is not too high. They cannot crit and they ARE reduced by toughness and resists.

Yes I use 1.5 and 1.6 sent weapons, but NO Kiss does not proc every 0.25s, it procs every 5-8s as it has a % chance on melee swing, it is NOT every melee swing. Here is a fight I recently had with a decent WL:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/61722513

Kiss did 2.2k damage over a 90s duel, that's tiny. Witchbrew did 3.5k.

You prove my point. Full def welf armor talis regen and everything.

The base dmg cannot reduced by toughness only the dmg bonus part.

This is why i write its unfair zero risk high reward gameplay.

Nothing wrong when somone inves into offensive stats and can make big dmg but the welf got it free. Def welf can put everything on def and still can do decent dmg with his toms of utilities.

Lower the base the fell def welf should not be able to do high dmg. Let it crit but make the base dmg very small. And give the kisses a 2 sec cd same like dok. And make the +50% aa sped tactic proc on crit , then rhey have to invest to crit.

Most of us dont wanna see regen armored tough tanks in bikini who can deal tons of dmg in bikini.

Its a zero risk, high reward gameplay. Unfair and makes the others fustrated.

[nat3s]

There is a portal abilityviewer i link it

https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/list

Ability dmg formula:
Base dmg + x*bonus damage + x*weapon dmg

The witchbrew and the kiss dmg is too high.
Aganist base dmg the toughness wont work.
These abilites are magic dmg so armor either.

With tactic and items and 1,5 speed sentinel weapons it can proc very often. It has a 0,25 cd. Amd its also healherself and healdebuff.

Dok has a similarcovenant with 2 sec cd not 0,25 cd.
D

Yes I know Dalen's ability viewer.

Witchbrew and Kiss damage is not too high. They cannot crit and they ARE reduced by toughness and resists.

Yes I use 1.5 and 1.6 sent weapons, but NO Kiss does not proc every 0.25s, it procs every 5-8s as it has a % chance on melee swing, it is NOT every melee swing. Here is a fight I recently had with a decent WL:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/61722513

Kiss did 2.2k damage over a 90s duel, that's tiny. Witchbrew did 3.5k.

You prove my point. Full def welf armor talis regen and everything.

The base dmg cannot reduced by toughness only the dmg bonus part.

This is why i write its unfair zero risk high reward gameplay.

Nothing wrong when somone inves into offensive stats and can make big dmg but the welf got it free. Def welf can put everything on def and still can do decent dmg with his toms of utilities.

Lower the base the fell def welf should not be able to do high dmg. Let it crit but make the base dmg very small. And give the kisses a 2 sec cd same like dok. And make the +50% aa sped tactic proc on crit , then rhey have to invest to crit.

Most of us dont wanna see regen armored tough tanks in bikini who can deal tons of dmg in bikini.

Its a zero risk, high reward gameplay. Unfair and makes the others fustrated.

Witchbrew and Kiss do not do big damage, that's your assertion. A lot of abilities have a base damage element to the formula much like Witchbrew.

In def setup, WEs do tickle damage, hence the long fights. Witchbrew is hitting for 250-350 in def setup (10s CD), Kiss for 180 every 5-8s.

I think you'd have more success arguing why def WE is powerful, focusing on the damage being too high, when it's not, is a weaker argument for me.

[SuperStar]

2000 dmg/ 3 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
180 dmg/ 0,25 sec toughness armor no effect onthis dmg, with 0 investment to offensive stat
And she got healed the same and hd the target.

For comperation:
Full glass cannon slayer bigest dmg ability with crit is 2000. Aganist armor aganist toughness and he sacreficed everything to hit big.

The healer dok has a similar covenant than kiss dmg proc and self heal it has a 2 sec cd, welf has 0.25 sec cd.

Its absurd its unfair.
Its a zero risk, high reward spec.

Its coz a lot of fustration lot of problem.

Where you getting that 180dmg per 0.25s there champ? Kiss procs roughly every 5-8 seconds, not per 0.25s. 2000 damager per 3s, what is that, cant be Witchbrew as that has a 10s CD.

Kiss has a proc chance % and internal CD I believe. Both Witchbrew and Kiss are reduced by toughness.

Where's this evidence you speak of?

He doesn't understand maths and per chance procs man. This whole argument section is pointless. I also don't know where that high damage comes from Witchbrew, the base damage is like 280x6 = 1680 spread over ~4 gcds.

With tactic and set and set bonus and with sentinal fast weapon speed how many AA can happen a sec? 3-4? And you prob also use abilities too. So it will be happen once a sec 180 magic dmg no toughnes no armor effect itwith zero offensive stat. And it will heal the welf 180hp/sec for 45 rr point we can buy 140 hp / FOUR sec not per 1 sc.

The dok has a similar covenenat it has a 2 sec cd for a REAson!

Dont forget the weapon dmage part from the withbrew dmg formula. Like i said no touhness or armor has effect on it. Same unfairness like the kisses.

[SuperStar]

Yes I know Dalen's ability viewer.

Witchbrew and Kiss damage is not too high. They cannot crit and they ARE reduced by toughness and resists.

Yes I use 1.5 and 1.6 sent weapons, but NO Kiss does not proc every 0.25s, it procs every 5-8s as it has a % chance on melee swing, it is NOT every melee swing. Here is a fight I recently had with a decent WL:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/61722513

Kiss did 2.2k damage over a 90s duel, that's tiny. Witchbrew did 3.5k.

You prove my point. Full def welf armor talis regen and everything.

The base dmg cannot reduced by toughness only the dmg bonus part.

This is why i write its unfair zero risk high reward gameplay.

Nothing wrong when somone inves into offensive stats and can make big dmg but the welf got it free. Def welf can put everything on def and still can do decent dmg with his toms of utilities.

Lower the base the fell def welf should not be able to do high dmg. Let it crit but make the base dmg very small. And give the kisses a 2 sec cd same like dok. And make the +50% aa sped tactic proc on crit , then rhey have to invest to crit.

Most of us dont wanna see regen armored tough tanks in bikini who can deal tons of dmg in bikini.

Its a zero risk, high reward gameplay. Unfair and makes the others fustrated.

Witchbrew and Kiss do not do big damage, that's your assertion. A lot of abilities have a base damage element to the formula much like Witchbrew.

In def setup, WEs do tickle damage, hence the long fights. Witchbrew is hitting for 250-350 in def setup (10s CD), Kiss for 180 every 5-8s.

I think you'd have more success arguing why def WE is powerful, focusing on the damage being too high, when it's not, is a weaker argument for me.

Make all the welf dmg ability to physical not magical and you will see a full def welf dmg is absurd. This is why makes a lot of fustration for a log time. No other mdps do this many magic dmg. This is why is absurd high. Everybody has to invest to offensive stat str crit or weapon skill. Def welf just can put every thing on defensive and can kill.

Zero risk, high reward unfair gameplay.


Has to be a compensation ok welf do magic dmg so armor wont affect it but should reduced the base dmg to compensate and be balanced. Thats all.

[nat3s]

You prove my point. Full def welf armor talis regen and everything.

The base dmg cannot reduced by toughness only the dmg bonus part.

This is why i write its unfair zero risk high reward gameplay.

Nothing wrong when somone inves into offensive stats and can make big dmg but the welf got it free. Def welf can put everything on def and still can do decent dmg with his toms of utilities.

Lower the base the fell def welf should not be able to do high dmg. Let it crit but make the base dmg very small. And give the kisses a 2 sec cd same like dok. And make the +50% aa sped tactic proc on crit , then rhey have to invest to crit.

Most of us dont wanna see regen armored tough tanks in bikini who can deal tons of dmg in bikini.

Its a zero risk, high reward gameplay. Unfair and makes the others fustrated.

Witchbrew and Kiss do not do big damage, that's your assertion. A lot of abilities have a base damage element to the formula much like Witchbrew.

In def setup, WEs do tickle damage, hence the long fights. Witchbrew is hitting for 250-350 in def setup (10s CD), Kiss for 180 every 5-8s.

I think you'd have more success arguing why def WE is powerful, focusing on the damage being too high, when it's not, is a weaker argument for me.

Make all the welf dmg ability to physical not magical and you will see a full def welf dmg is absurd. This is why makes a lot of fustration for a log time. No other mdps do this many magic dmg. This is why is absurd high. Everybody has to invest to offensive stat str crit or weapon skill. Def welf just can put every thing on defensive and can kill.

Zero risk, high reward unfair gameplay.


Has to be a compensation ok welf do magic dmg so armor wont affect it but should reduced the base dmg to compensate and be balanced. Thats all.

Def WE doesn't do high damage. It's that simple.

Def WE doing a good proportion of magic damage is the reason why it works, yes 100%. Much like why solo Chosen, SM, Kotbs, def Mag, def Engi all work well as they have a mix of magic and physical damage.

The power of def WE isn't it's damage, you're not on the right track there, it is def gear + absorb + kiss heal + regen + TB + magic damage options i.e. the whole package. Probably the biggest buff it had recently was the introduction of TB renown.

However, your main argument I assume is that is too powerful? If so, I disagree, other classes do it better, I'd say it's strong, solid A tier, but it's no WL, RP, Zeal, AM in solo play.

[krumhur]

You prove my point. Full def welf armor talis regen and everything.

The base dmg cannot reduced by toughness only the dmg bonus part.

This is why i write its unfair zero risk high reward gameplay.

Nothing wrong when somone inves into offensive stats and can make big dmg but the welf got it free. Def welf can put everything on def and still can do decent dmg with his toms of utilities.

Lower the base the fell def welf should not be able to do high dmg. Let it crit but make the base dmg very small. And give the kisses a 2 sec cd same like dok. And make the +50% aa sped tactic proc on crit , then rhey have to invest to crit.

Most of us dont wanna see regen armored tough tanks in bikini who can deal tons of dmg in bikini.

Its a zero risk, high reward gameplay. Unfair and makes the others fustrated.

Witchbrew and Kiss do not do big damage, that's your assertion. A lot of abilities have a base damage element to the formula much like Witchbrew.

In def setup, WEs do tickle damage, hence the long fights. Witchbrew is hitting for 250-350 in def setup (10s CD), Kiss for 180 every 5-8s.

I think you'd have more success arguing why def WE is powerful, focusing on the damage being too high, when it's not, is a weaker argument for me.

Make all the welf dmg ability to physical not magical and you will see a full def welf dmg is absurd. This is why makes a lot of fustration for a log time. No other mdps do this many magic dmg. This is why is absurd high. Everybody has to invest to offensive stat str crit or weapon skill. Def welf just can put every thing on defensive and can kill.

Zero risk, high reward unfair gameplay.


Has to be a compensation ok welf do magic dmg so armor wont affect it but should reduced the base dmg to compensate and be balanced. Thats all.

We wish it was all, but you keep repeating the same arguments ad nauseam, this does not want to be a personal attack but you have to understand that reading the same thing for countless posts is too much: "Zero risk high reward unfair gameplay" etc. Your posts seem like your personal crusade, or maybe inquisition, against the class.

Even the covenant argument is out of place: covenants are group buffs, kisses are not. It's not a meaningful comparison.

Others have pointed out the real problem with defensive builds: irrespective of the class, they are not the funniest build to play against.
But they exist.
There are specs which are considered even more boring to fight against, like dps healers, yet those exist too.

You have to accept this reality: people who enjoy 1vs1 tend to go for the most successful and more forgiving build, which nowadays is the bruiser-type specs with high sustain. You don't implode in seconds, you are not guaranteed to die if you mess up a tiny part of your rotation, etc.

Of course defensive stealthers are perceived as more obnoxious than other bruisers, but it's not for the defensive stats or whatever, it's always for the stealth and the ability to engage and disengage almost at will.
But it's a perception problem (other classes can achieve the same tankyness with less defensive stats, for example, thus having more offensive stats to distribute, others can fight at range, etc).
Moreover, you can't touch those things without messing also the glass cannon spec of WEs and make it even more risky and less fun to play.

Imho you are wrong if you really think the problem is just defensive WEs. And even then, the solution is not to nerf a spec which is clearly on par with other defensive builds (looking at those WE vs WL flights): the solution is either to incentivise more offensive, glass cannon specs, across the board, or to disincentivise all defensive specs, again for all classes, not just WEs.

Personally I would prefer if devs went the first route: more options are always better than being forced into a single specs because others have been nerfed too hard (look at shield healers and how much time it's taking to rebalance them).

[SuperStar]

Witchbrew and Kiss do not do big damage, that's your assertion. A lot of abilities have a base damage element to the formula much like Witchbrew.

In def setup, WEs do tickle damage, hence the long fights. Witchbrew is hitting for 250-350 in def setup (10s CD), Kiss for 180 every 5-8s.

I think you'd have more success arguing why def WE is powerful, focusing on the damage being too high, when it's not, is a weaker argument for me.

Make all the welf dmg ability to physical not magical and you will see a full def welf dmg is absurd. This is why makes a lot of fustration for a log time. No other mdps do this many magic dmg. This is why is absurd high. Everybody has to invest to offensive stat str crit or weapon skill. Def welf just can put every thing on defensive and can kill.

Zero risk, high reward unfair gameplay.


Has to be a compensation ok welf do magic dmg so armor wont affect it but should reduced the base dmg to compensate and be balanced. Thats all.

We wish it was all, but you keep repeating the same arguments ad nauseam, this does not want to be a personal attack but you have to understand that reading the same thing for countless posts is too much: "Zero risk high reward unfair gameplay" etc. Your posts seem like your personal crusade, or maybe inquisition, against the class.

Even the covenant argument is out of place: covenants are group buffs, kisses are not. It's not a meaningful comparison.

Others have pointed out the real problem with defensive builds: irrespective of the class, they are not the funniest build to play against.
But they exist.
There are specs which are considered even more boring to fight against, like dps healers, yet those exist too.

You have to accept this reality: people who enjoy 1vs1 tend to go for the most successful and more forgiving build, which nowadays is the bruiser-type specs with high sustain. You don't implode in seconds, you are not guaranteed to die if you mess up a tiny part of your rotation, etc.

Of course defensive stealthers are perceived as more obnoxious than other bruisers, but it's not for the defensive stats or whatever, it's always for the stealth and the ability to engage and disengage almost at will.
But it's a perception problem (other classes can achieve the same tankyness with less defensive stats, for example, thus having more offensive stats to distribute, others can fight at range, etc).
Moreover, you can't touch those things without messing also the glass cannon spec of WEs and make it even more risky and less fun to play.

Imho you are wrong if you really think the problem is just defensive WEs. And even then, the solution is not to nerf a spec which is clearly on par with other defensive builds (looking at those WE vs WL flights): the solution is either to incentivise more offensive, glass cannon specs, across the board, or to disincentivise all defensive specs, again for all classes, not just WEs.

Personally I would prefer if devs went the first route: more options are always better than being forced into a single specs because others have been nerfed too hard (look at shield healers and how much time it's taking to rebalance them).

I have to repeat my points, because most of the time it feels you didnt read it before or didnt understand it at all.

Nothing wrong with solo spec, nothing wrong with def or regen spec.
The problem welf has everything in the game.
Witchbrew and kisses base dmg is too high its the same or higher than other class 13point skill but its magic so armor and touhgness cant effect it.

Welf magic dmg abailities base dmg part should be reduces to compensate they are magic.

Thats all, its an unfair adventige.

Amd this is the main problem this is why i reapeat it over and over.

Def welf is a zero risk high reard gameplay, it feeled unfair and unbalanced most of us agree with it and makes a lot of fustration.

Nothing worg with the huge dmg when it comes from a glasscannom nothing wrong with a regen tankiness immortal if they hit tiny.

The problem when a full regen tanky def welf can make a huge dmg and all of the utility in the game.

Glass cannon is supported by the defvsbut its high risk high reward gamplay so there are players who wanna take 0 risk and high reward and play def welf. Just half the welf magic base dmg and it will be balanced and cool. No need to an armored toughness regen bikini model with 2 jump stealth wound toughness and healdebuff with zero offensive investment kill anybody.
Unfair unbalaced.