Why SnB WP feels unplayable

[SuperStar]

There is a holy trinity.
Dps, heal, tank.

Hibrid to be a fair game should be divided
50%heal 50% dps for example the proportions don't matter but never more than 100%.

Imo the shield wp has a very hard position to be balanced because is not a hibrid is a tribrid
All the 3 architype
If you make 33dps-33heal-33tank percent its had too play bad dmg bad heal bad tanky

Imo the only good way to go to forget the dps at all.
0 dps 50 heal 50 tank it should be far esier to balance and play. Make it tanky almost like a tank but without cc. Make them heal almost as much as a healer and make dmg almost zero max 50 dmg per hit. Capped dmg.

Gameplay to hit the enemy healers and rdps(the others will parry and block) or let them heal on hit even if they blocked parried. And let them heal almost as much as a caster healer but instant on hit.

Counter play to cc them. Othoing healdebuff them. Etc. Same what we did againist live dps dok. But in this case we cannot burn him inder a kd.

I think it would be very fun. And acceptable and playable for most of us.

[Sinisterror]

Removing DPS from Iconic Melee Healer gameplay is definetely not the answer. Removing Shield is, because Shield is added in RoR and it just complicates things. Removing Shield and getting old abilities like sacrifice while moving + 25% Increased melee healing + 2 targets hitting Divine strike/Consume essence spirit dmg.

Charge for Wh/We and Shield for Wp/Dok are the biggest breakers of the holy trinity Warhammer gameplay. Both are added in RoR

[Mortgrimm]

You are right. I don´t care about a shield or a so called shield priest.
Point is to make this melee healer build playable. I think the approach was to create 3 different playstyles. Book for pure ranged heal, 2h for dmg and middle tree (atm shield) as a mix of both. Right now this last option doesn´t exist.

[SuperStar]

I wrote about the mhealer iprion the shield spec.

There is a tome cast healer wp.
It can be 100%heal or 60%heal with 40% percent tankiness.

Dps 2 handed wp can be 80%dps +20 heal

And there is a mhealer version the shield wp which is rn balanced but hard to play 33/33/33

My suggestion was wabout the shield wp
Make is 60% heal 40% tankiness and forget the dmg at all.

Idk excacly what you want guys. Be op like def welf or what? Yeah there was a time when melee healer was in god mode i think the first version made by aza with unfefendable attack. It has a good dmg crazy heal and tankiness. It was 60%dps 80%heal 70% tankiness. It was an immortal abominatin i had it too i enjoyed it i was sigmar but it was very unfair, zero risk very high reward.
It was a one men army.

[kpihuss]

I wrote about the mhealer iprion the shield spec.

There is a tome cast healer wp.
It can be 100%heal or 60%heal with 40% percent tankiness.

Dps 2 handed wp can be 80%dps +20 heal

And there is a mhealer version the shield wp which is rn balanced but hard to play 33/33/33

My suggestion was wabout the shield wp
Make is 60% heal 40% tankiness and forget the dmg at all.

Idk excacly what you want guys. Be op like def welf or what? Yeah there was a time when melee healer was in god mode i think the first version made by aza with unfefendable attack. It has a good dmg crazy heal and tankiness. It was 60%dps 80%heal 70% tankiness. It was an immortal abominatin i had it too i enjoyed it i was sigmar but it was very unfair, zero risk very high reward.
It was a one men army.

As I think almost all of us Shield WP players have said, what we want is to be melee healers: strong in close combat, but fragile when we weren’t engaged in combat.

Honestly, the pre-patch version of Shield healers was the perfect combination: strong in melee, but easy to kite and kill if we were forced out of combat, or if we got knocked down, or if we were punted a bit out of the melee

[krumhur]

I wrote about the mhealer iprion the shield spec.

There is a tome cast healer wp.
It can be 100%heal or 60%heal with 40% percent tankiness.

Dps 2 handed wp can be 80%dps +20 heal

And there is a mhealer version the shield wp which is rn balanced but hard to play 33/33/33

My suggestion was wabout the shield wp
Make is 60% heal 40% tankiness and forget the dmg at all.

Idk excacly what you want guys. Be op like def welf or what? Yeah there was a time when melee healer was in god mode i think the first version made by aza with unfefendable attack. It has a good dmg crazy heal and tankiness. It was 60%dps 80%heal 70% tankiness. It was an immortal abominatin i had it too i enjoyed it i was sigmar but it was very unfair, zero risk very high reward.
It was a one men army.

Your solution Is not satisfactory because instead of solving the problem by balancing the three components which make hybrid healers interesting, you suggest to simply remove one of them.

That said, given how complex balancing all those aspects (plus scenario/smallman/warband play) seems, it may as well be the best course of action, in which case I really hope shield healers get guard, a menace tactic and taunt so they can play like real hybrid healer-tanks.

In any case, the dev answer doesn't leave too much hope for significant reworks.

[krumhur]

Suggestions to make the class playable again in all content

• Reduce Sigmar’s Will cost to 40–50 RF.

• Either increase ability damage, or convert it to spiritual so it ignores armor.

• Make Sigmar’s Radiance and Sigmar’s Will undefendable, and increase the lifetap multiplier based on damage dealt.

• Make all heals unaffected by healing debuffs again, because it’s extremely easy for melee to apply heal debuffs to Shield WP, and you’re an easy target for enemy tanks and enemy RDPS.

• Just like RP converts DPS stats into healing stats (and vice versa), and SW converts ballistic stats into melee stats, WP should be able to convert healing stats (Willpower and healing crit) into damage stats (Strength and melee crit). Alternatively, WP gear could simply have “critical hit rate” instead of “healing critical” or “melee critical.”

I may be wrong but you highlighted a couple more glaring issues which are not even indirectly addressed by those suggestions, namely the lack of ranged lifetaps (or lack of ranged attacks altogether) and the fact that in warbands you implode (or, at the very least, need the utmost care from tanks, at detriment of other melee dps).

Since you have more knowledge about the class, the spec, and its previous iterations, I'd like to know what would you suggest to fix or at least improve those issues.

[kpihuss]

Suggestions to make the class playable again in all content

• Reduce Sigmar’s Will cost to 40–50 RF.

• Either increase ability damage, or convert it to spiritual so it ignores armor.

• Make Sigmar’s Radiance and Sigmar’s Will undefendable, and increase the lifetap multiplier based on damage dealt.

• Make all heals unaffected by healing debuffs again, because it’s extremely easy for melee to apply heal debuffs to Shield WP, and you’re an easy target for enemy tanks and enemy RDPS.

• Just like RP converts DPS stats into healing stats (and vice versa), and SW converts ballistic stats into melee stats, WP should be able to convert healing stats (Willpower and healing crit) into damage stats (Strength and melee crit). Alternatively, WP gear could simply have “critical hit rate” instead of “healing critical” or “melee critical.”

I may be wrong but you highlighted a couple more glaring issues which are not even indirectly addressed by those suggestions, namely the lack of ranged lifetaps (or lack of ranged attacks altogether) and the fact that in warbands you implode (or, at the very least, need the utmost care from tanks, at detriment of other melee dps).

Since you have more knowledge about the class, the spec, and its previous iterations, I'd like to know what would you suggest to fix or at least improve those issues.

As I’ve always argued about Shield WP, it needs to have ways to be countered, and range has always been one of those ways—and I think it should remain so. It’s an intrinsic issue of the class, but it should be compensated once you’re already engaged in melee, with strong, impactful healing.

In fact, that same strong, impactful healing is what would allow a Shield WP to survive in the melee of warbands. The current problem is that the melee heals are very, very, very weak (on top of that, they get debuffed), and the only one that can actually keep a Shield WP alive in melee (Sigmar’s Will) is so expensive in RF that it can’t be sustained over time. So once your RF runs out (which is basically 3 GCDs), you just explode.

That’s why the “quick, easy, and cheap” fix for the class is those 5 points I mentioned above.

[SuperStar]

Suggestions to make the class playable again in all content

• Reduce Sigmar’s Will cost to 40–50 RF.

• Either increase ability damage, or convert it to spiritual so it ignores armor.

• Make Sigmar’s Radiance and Sigmar’s Will undefendable, and increase the lifetap multiplier based on damage dealt.

• Make all heals unaffected by healing debuffs again, because it’s extremely easy for melee to apply heal debuffs to Shield WP, and you’re an easy target for enemy tanks and enemy RDPS.

• Just like RP converts DPS stats into healing stats (and vice versa), and SW converts ballistic stats into melee stats, WP should be able to convert healing stats (Willpower and healing crit) into damage stats (Strength and melee crit). Alternatively, WP gear could simply have “critical hit rate” instead of “healing critical” or “melee critical.”

I may be wrong but you highlighted a couple more glaring issues which are not even indirectly addressed by those suggestions, namely the lack of ranged lifetaps (or lack of ranged attacks altogether) and the fact that in warbands you implode (or, at the very least, need the utmost care from tanks, at detriment of other melee dps).

Since you have more knowledge about the class, the spec, and its previous iterations, I'd like to know what would you suggest to fix or at least improve those issues.

As I’ve always argued about Shield WP, it needs to have ways to be countered, and range has always been one of those ways—and I think it should remain so. It’s an intrinsic issue of the class, but it should be compensated once you’re already engaged in melee, with strong, impactful healing.

In fact, that same strong, impactful healing is what would allow a Shield WP to survive in the melee of warbands. The current problem is that the melee heals are very, very, very weak (on top of that, they get debuffed), and the only one that can actually keep a Shield WP alive in melee (Sigmar’s Will) is so expensive in RF that it can’t be sustained over time. So once your RF runs out (which is basically 3 GCDs), you just explode.

That’s why the “quick, easy, and cheap” fix for the class is those 5 points I mentioned above.

With your suggestion the it would be an abomination. Worst than a def welf.
The best dps in the game with undefenable magic dmg. (Welf dont have thx god the only thing what needed to have a chance aganist them)

Amazing sustain self regen self heal. Welf has also incredible but this would be even better.

A dps and a healer 100-100 ratio basicly min 2 class in one char.

The rp has a 20 cd to switch. Healer wont kill anybody or dps anybody can kill them. They have to kite and many of his ability is casted. They have a stagger and a aoe punt and thats all.


No need another def welf imo.


The shield wp now is very well balanced but hard to play. I dont think there is a room for the devs the improve it. They did a great job.
33-33-33

You cannot go higher or it will be very unbalanced.
You have 100 and you can make suggestion.

If you wanna play with dps self healer its another topic, i think is a possibility rn too. But you have to savrifice some of your tankiness.

[kpihuss]

I may be wrong but you highlighted a couple more glaring issues which are not even indirectly addressed by those suggestions, namely the lack of ranged lifetaps (or lack of ranged attacks altogether) and the fact that in warbands you implode (or, at the very least, need the utmost care from tanks, at detriment of other melee dps).

Since you have more knowledge about the class, the spec, and its previous iterations, I'd like to know what would you suggest to fix or at least improve those issues.

As I’ve always argued about Shield WP, it needs to have ways to be countered, and range has always been one of those ways—and I think it should remain so. It’s an intrinsic issue of the class, but it should be compensated once you’re already engaged in melee, with strong, impactful healing.

In fact, that same strong, impactful healing is what would allow a Shield WP to survive in the melee of warbands. The current problem is that the melee heals are very, very, very weak (on top of that, they get debuffed), and the only one that can actually keep a Shield WP alive in melee (Sigmar’s Will) is so expensive in RF that it can’t be sustained over time. So once your RF runs out (which is basically 3 GCDs), you just explode.

That’s why the “quick, easy, and cheap” fix for the class is those 5 points I mentioned above.

With your suggestion the it would be an abomination. Worst than a def welf.
The best dps in the game with undefenable magic dmg. (Welf dont have thx god the only thing what needed to have a chance aganist them)

Amazing sustain self regen self heal. Welf has also incredible but this would be even better.

A dps and a healer 100-100 ratio basicly min 2 class in one char.

The rp has a 20 cd to switch. Healer wont kill anybody or dps anybody can kill them. They have to kite and many of his ability is casted. They have a stagger and a aoe punt and thats all.


No need another def welf imo.


The shield wp now is very well balanced but hard to play. I dont think there is a room for the devs the improve it. They did a great job.
33-33-33

You cannot go higher or it will be very unbalanced.
You have 100 and you can make suggestion.

If you wanna play with dps self healer its another topic, i think is a possibility rn too. But you have to savrifice some of your tankiness.

Abomination? Where?

A shield healer has MANY weaknesses. Hit them with a KD, a Distracting Bellow, a simple absorption potion, or just kite them a bit and they’ll be dead in seconds because they can’t heal.

Obviously, they have strengths to compensate for those weaknesses—like every class in the game.

Before the patch, a shield healer was 25% damage, 50% healing, and 25% tank. They could hold their own in melee because of how much they could heal, not because they were a pure tank. A good focus and we were dead.

And with all due respect to the GMs and developers: the class was already VERY hard to play before (try constantly choosing an offensive target and a defensive target, positioning yourself in melee, evaluating the state of the fight to decide which ability to use, and repeating all of that every single GCD). Right now it’s neither well balanced nor fun. You only have to look at the fact that the players who used to play it don’t anymore, and you hardly see new WPs/DoKs leveling in that spec.

And I don’t believe that all those level 85+ WPs who played shield before are suddenly too incompetent to play it now just because it’s a difficult class.