Siege & RvR Zone Idea

[Hazmy]

Honestly a huge issue is the keeps are to small

This ^

I don't think it is possible to significantly increase the quality of sieges by any means, be it ladders, new mechanics, flying on top, orcapults etc. - because inherently the area around keeps is too small and why would you fight outside anyway, unless the attackers are already doomed... being on the bottom floor and waiting for them to push door so you can farm them or oil them is the best defense you can do. Collision will do the rest of the work.

Forts work because they have significantly more space outside in the courtyard, a whole zone basically, and defenders also have a way to retreat inside and regroup until the last moment - and even then a full Fort is also not exactly the most fun or playable content currently. It already breaks the game in many aspects if they are full - and the lakes allow much more players to participate in a normal siege, in much smaller space.

Which is why my suggestions lean towards speeding up zones, giving a good reason to focus on objectives and make Keeps less of a hotspot than they are right now and focus on fights IN the lakes.

Essentially we would see a lot more Forts this way, and Forts would become the big Sieges that we have right now.

[kleinbuchstabe]

I don't think it is possible to significantly increase the quality of sieges by any means, be it ladders, new mechanics, flying on top, orcapults etc. - because inherently the area around keeps is too small and why would you fight outside anyway,

Why would i fight outside anyway? Because its fun, and better than doing nothing while 4 people atack the door. And this game is about fighting, so the question why would i fight anyway is little weird to me... its like: why do you want to play the game? ^^ Also we have evidence from live server, that these mechanics do work. The outer walls are big enough to jump on it somehow, and bring some action to a siege. Its not only about efficiency, its also about to make a siege more varied and fun, wich increases the quality of sieges imo.

unless the attackers are already doomed... being on the bottom floor and waiting for them to push door so you can farm them or oil them is the best defense you can do. Collision will do the rest of the work.

yeah well,thats the situation we have right now... thats why i suggest to make more ways to get inside the keeps. The defenders have to defend their outer walls, second and third floor too now against invaders. Not only wait and funnel. More dynamic. And like i said allready, we have evidence for this dynamic from live, where atackers could reach the walls. Would these mechanics make the sieges worse? I dont think so.

Forts work because they have significantly more space outside in the courtyard, a whole zone basically, and defenders also have a way to retreat inside and regroup until the last moment - and even then a full Fort is also not exactly the most fun or playable content currently. It already breaks the game in many aspects if they are full - and the lakes allow much more players to participate in a normal siege, in much smaller space.

The space of the wall, in front of the door of the actual fortress-keep is not bigger than the space between the outer walls and an inner regular keep. Only difference is the flag-cap-courtyard space, but this is not part of the actual siege. When the first door is open, we have more or less the same situation like in every inner keep. The possibility to retreat for defenders would also work the same way: until outer door is open they can respawn inside. Like it was in the past allready.

Which is why my suggestions lean towards speeding up zones, giving a good reason to focus on objectives and make Keeps less of a hotspot than they are right now and focus on fights IN the lakes.

Still i hardly disagree with this suggestion. If we keep going to cut away more and more of the base game content, instead of improving it... then one day we will play a totally different game. The changes of the city mechanic allready broke the RvR in its core. Im against following that path further.

[Pahakukka]

Im with hazmy here. Atm the the game stagnates around eu prime as neither realm cannot realistically siege. We end up running around main hotspots of each zone for about 6 hours until either realms population drops and other real just steamrolls the keep with numbers.

The star system is thing of the past when you had to push 2 zones for city. so you ranked 1 so you dont lose it while trying to capture another. now since there is really no campaign to happen, it would feel like progress to get zones flipping more frequently. It would also help with the crest farm for those who think its too tedious atm since zone lock rewards are massive boost to daily crests.

[Boomie82]

i think it would be good for the game if keep doors cant be repaired/replaced.
that would make even smaller groups "viable" for sieges if they sneak in some damage in less populated zones. even if you get wiped you can make progress to "win" a zone.

[Helwer]

+1 - eternal Praag grind by 2 blob or megablob is boring. new players could think the whole (end-) game is just circling around Martyrs Square flanking and getting flanked. Recent changes did not help much so it needs more. Defense mechanics can be lowerd or taken but there should be options for players to join defenses and avaoid pvdoor like flying to keep just like porting to bfo. Closer to fort-sieges. With additional tactical options for attackers.

[dasparkylad]

Yep, that was all last night was for hours on end and honestly it gets so boring. A lot of the times I quit are because I don't want to play scenarios as they aren't fun without having a full 6 man, which depending on your guild size can be hard, and RvR can be just circling the same BO over and over for hours.

The only reason I kept playing again this time is the last week or so I managed to find a few actually fast zone locks where things kept moving, and that was fun. But my god last night reminded me of the hell this game can be when nothing moves because all the zergs stay in the same zone to farm each other for renown and nothing else happens.

Edit: Wow its worse than I thought, try to summon a ram when people are WC blobbing and you get shouted at for ruining everything. If actually trying to take the ram to keep when sides are even is the most terrible thing you can do then RvR is fundamentally broken right now.

Edit 2: wow... and apparently doing that is a bannable offence... so I could be banned for attempting to start a siege... what on earth has happened to RvR to reach this stage?

[Toshutkidup]

@hazmy was talking about this idea on my stream. when you can , if u wish come on in so we can get full idea what u would like if u dont mind. I actually like alot of the idea or base ideas ur post represents.

[illumius]

This is a very bad idea. The RVR game is already simplified to the level of a kindergarten.

[dasparkylad]

This is a very bad idea. The RVR game is already simplified to the level of a kindergarten.

It might be simple but its also tedious, and honestly I feel like you can't get simpler than it is now. Deliver boxes to level up a keep (boring busy work), then wait till you have a big enough zerg that you can attack the keep and easily win. Thats what oRvR is right now, and its boring as hell and actively encourages people to not engage in locking a zone.

[Hazmy]

This is a very bad idea. The RVR game is already simplified to the level of a kindergarten.

Yes, and this idea would make RvR significantly more fluent, dynamic than now and make Warbands have to think more than AFK in front of keeps or blob in a big group as an overflow warband - Battle Objectives will matter more to pushing the campaign and multiple zones could be active at the same time with a chance to win that zone without a stalemate siege.

I don't think you thought through or fully understand what this suggestion is about. Everything about this would make RvR more complex and not simplify anything.