scs premade

[peterthepan3]

could be possible to make 2 separate queue in scs? one for solo join and one for join as a group? and could be possible to make a cancel all queue button like the join all one?

1) If multiple solo SC existed, group SC would go extinct for 99% of the time. This wouldn't be justified: people playing as a group should not be penalised.

2) Use QQer addon.

[Sulorie]

This sounds like the perpetual North American complaint, where the SC pool from which players Que tends to be so small the participants become repetitive. Additionally this renders the PUG SC more vulnerable to six-man pre-made groups duo-queing their way in. It is just the nature of the beast.

The same can happen during EU prime time, when people queue again right after leaving sc.

[Darosh]

This sounds like the perpetual North American complaint, where the SC pool from which players Que tends to be so small the participants become repetitive. Additionally this renders the PUG SC more vulnerable to six-man pre-made groups duo-queing their way in. It is just the nature of the beast.

THIS is what baffles me the most. The player pool is so tiny that you are bound to get to know each other yet people don't group.

It's a sad act that continues indefinetly.

Abbd: Even if just 24 players were online, you'd see at most one duo per realm ~ 6mans tend to login together... /5 is either a desert or a trainwreck.

[Mystry]

This sounds like the perpetual North American complaint, where the SC pool from which players Que tends to be so small the participants become repetitive. Additionally this renders the PUG SC more vulnerable to six-man pre-made groups duo-queing their way in. It is just the nature of the beast.

THIS is what baffles me the most. The player pool is so tiny that you are bound to get to know each other yet people don't group.

It's a sad act that continues indefinetly.

Abbd: Even if just 24 players were online, you'd see at most one duo per realm ~ 6mans tend to login together... /5 is either a desert or a trainwreck.

I play during both EU prime time and NA prime time (depending on the day) and I can tell you that the vast majority of NA Order players I repeatedly run into in SCs are just bad players. Mean of me to say it, perhaps, but it's true. They're just not good at the game; they don't assist train, they don't pre-HoT, they don't cleanse, they don't use their morales outside of DPS using sever nerve, they don't usually go for objectives, and they especially do not target the right people.

Additionally, Order almost NEVER has a good group composition for scenarios. Destro nearly always has at least 3 healers, at least 3 actually defensively specced tanks, and uses the strong DPS classes such as Sorcerer or Magus. Order typically has 2 or 3 2hander tanks who don't guard, maybe a single lowbie healer if we're lucky, usually no healers at all, and a ton of Shadow Warriors who, let's be honest here, are not as good as BW/Sorc at range and require guards and heals that we usually don't have to function in melee as Assault.

All that on top of the fact that the playerbase during NA time is small enough to consistently run into the same players on both sides leads to a perpetual stomping of Order over, and over, and over again.

Is there a solution? I honestly don't know. There is a clear gap in gear, skill, and wealth between Order and Destro NA (I rarely see Order scenario players have potion buffs, while I rarely see Destro players without them). For a long time I believed that the most expedient solution was to allow each team only two healers per side, and not even start unless those two spots are filled, as Order's lack of healers is by far the biggest contributor, but doing so with NA's limited playerbase would probably result in zero scenarios at all. Not that it matters, when Order gets stomped so hard that they can't score a single kill because the Destro team has 3 invincible zealots, Order gets zero XP/Renown/Medallions for the entire SC.

Anecdotal evidence? Sure. But this has been my experience on Order during NA times. It's absolute hell. For every won scenario there are a dozen lost ones, and not just 'oh we just didn't get the objective in time' lost, but 500-0, we never had even the slightest hint of a chance lost. And this is in the PUG scenario as well as in the regular ones.

Lastly, something needs to be done to stop players from duo-queing to get their goddamn premades into the PUG scenario. I don't care what, but it's incredibly obvious and really shitty. These players just want to farm renown off of PUGs rather than face other premades, and it's a scumbag tactic to subvert mechanics that are supposed to prevent it.

/rant

[Martok]

I play during both EU prime time and NA prime time (depending on the day) and I can tell you that the vast majority of NA Order players I repeatedly run into in SCs are just bad players. Mean of me to say it, perhaps, but it's true.

I don't believe it is quite that bad. What I would agree with is NA Destruction tends to be more organized in SC play, but not necessarily better players than their Order counterparts. I have caught far too many of their melee-train heroes out alone in the lakes somewhere and quickly found out what they were truly made of to believe they are all just better players than us poor Order slobs.

They're just not good at the game; they don't assist train, they don't pre-HoT, they don't cleanse, they don't use their morales outside of DPS using sever nerve, they don't usually go for objectives, and they especially do not target the right people.

Yeah, I see some of that as well, but there is a learning curve in place. My recommendation is this. When you encounter a player in game who is not doing X, Y, or Z, consider for a moment they may be new to MMO games, or new to this game, or a kid playing in their spare time, or just someone in need of a few pointers as opposed to immediately labeling them morons to stupid to know how to do X, Y, or Z.


As to the "don't usually go for objectives" issue, that is one reason I am currently engaged in producing my series of video scenario guides, the first eleven of which can be found in the media section of the forums.

Additionally, Order almost NEVER has a good group composition for scenarios. Destro nearly always has at least 3 healers...

Destruction has one group which consistently runs with three to four healers in the pre-made, rendering it a pre-made specifically designed to rely on group-heal spamming to overcome their opposition. They are boring as hell. You have a point Order does currently suffer from a dearth of healers, a condition only exacerbated when one offers to run their AM in the group and they are told we don't want any stinking AM's. Therefore part of problem may be the result of self-inflicted wounds.


However, there are a few NA Order guilds which are making determined efforts to address this issue, and I can state with certainty the level of Order play and group composition has dramatically improved, from my perspective, since I joined an NA guild. I would suggest NA players join up.

All that on top of the fact that the playerbase during NA time is small enough to consistently run into the same players on both sides leads to a perpetual stomping of Order over, and over, and over again.

Again, I respectively disagree. Ok, sure, Order being stomped happens. But then so does the reverse. However I, and other NA players I know, didn't get every SC item there is to buy by losing every SC we ever played in. Come on...

Lastly, something needs to be done to stop players from duo-queing to get their goddamn premades into the PUG scenario. I don't care what, but it's incredibly obvious and really shitty. These players just want to farm renown off of PUGs rather than face other premades, and it's a scumbag tactic to subvert mechanics that are supposed to prevent it.

Agreed.

[Joshwa70]

So you are saying that north American players are bad....while getting stomped by north American players?
Sounds legit.

[peterthepan3]

Can't you just form a group to alleviate all of your problems? Like....for real?

[dansari]

Y'all need some comms and groups, and that whole rant is completely anecdotal. I've played the pug sc countless times where we've stomped and countless others where we've been stomped. I've also won and lost plenty of scenarios in a 6, but the game is much more enjoyable when you're in a group. Hell, even duo queueing the sc will increase your win rate by a lot.

[MiauMio]

DISCLAIMER: just arguing for the cause here, nothing personal at any level.
the argument of "just form a group" is kinda hollow i think. Most people are rather casual, especially those who usually que for pug SC anyway so a group of 6 casualy with mediocre gear and knowledge would not really cut it against any 6man of people that do not complain about pug SCs. Since thats basically just 6man vs some casuals all over again.
I really don't mean to be mean here but I've played alot with players that have a more casual approach and I can firmly assure that VOIP or being in a 6man would not help the least bit against any decent premade (which they are complaining and of which the apparent solution would be grouping up) since they lack everything else other than voip: coordination, good builds, good gear, good game knowledge, mindgames etc. etc.
And if you'd want to argue then just form a group to learn all those things, well... that would be basically just asking them to "git gud". If they had good gear/knowledge/coordination this problem would not be apparent afterall.

[peterthepan3]

The guys are talking about composition disparities: composition disparities can be fixed by forming a group. WAR doesn't have a huge playerbase, and so can only ensure x amount of archetype to a certain degree. RoR already tries to do that, so if you're still not happy with the pug disparities - stop pugging!

Also, I can't agree with that, Miau. If you're casual, but somewhat committed, you can jump on comms, think of good specs to run to complement one another, practice with eachother, etc. You'll die a lot, but even if you win once the whole night - it's an accomplishment. Not a fan of self-deprecation: the game's incredibly easy to learn and 'excel' in, if people are willing to commit even the slightest.