Whats going on with Destro?

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Destro doesn't have a problem in open spaces which is why we do so well on the world boss. Enclosed spaces (forts) are biggest problem due to the advantage order gets in aoe, and stunties running around with undependable attacks. I have a full sov geared BO (yes SnB) and with heals on me I have been flattend in under 2-3 secs by a slayerball. I will never understand why making attacks undefendable is a thing, it's a cheap trick that rewards dumb play. Before anyone says it yes I'm spamming shatter enchantment as hard as I can, it doesn't matter.

'

The laughable part is that they bring nonsense like Zealot M4 "Windblock" as the end all be all OP ability around which Order had to adapt around, but also justifies all the other nifty tools in the order box.
30ft and 10 seconds of use on enemies with normally 8K health and above being bolstered by Focused Mending (15%), Exalted Defenses (%20), Blessings of Grungni (25%), Magical Infusion (25%). Total of 85% healing efficiency on any single target. If you are a Swordmaster add up Isha's Protection (20%) so more like 105% healing efficiency, without much work really, just smart healing.

How ANY Order Warband loses versus another Destro Warband is beyond me. Lack of coordination and class knowledge.

Side Note: Swordmaster's Bolstering Enchatments and Blessings of Heaving (got to hit target to heal here) are all affected by the above calculations and can be spread with AoE to all enemies in the vicinity. Guaranteeing 100% uptime for the group as a Support Swordmaster.

You do realize not all of those stack right? lol. Pretty sure only things that stack are abilities, tactics and then morales.

Focused Mending is 15% increased incoming heals from a tactic, so if a SM is running Isha's Protection that takes priorityj, like wise if a RP is running Blessing of Grungni that takes priority, These DO NOT STACK.

yeah these don't stack bud

For stacking rules FM counts as an ability (modified by a tactic, but still an ability):

Focused Mending (15%) => Ability +15% incoming heal=> stack with outgoing +% and with +% incoming morale (BoG or IP not both)
Magical Infusion (25%) => ability +25% incoming heal=> stack with outgoing +% and with +% incoming morale (BoG or IP not both)
Blessings of Grungni (25%) => tactic +25 incoming heal=> stack with outgoing +% and with +% incoming ability (FM or MI not both)
Isha's Protection (20%) => tactic +20% incoming heal => stack with outgoing +% and with +% incoming ability (FM or MI not both)

Exalted Defenses (%20) => tactic +20% outgoing heal => its outgoing so stack with any incoming +%

[Gurf]

Destro doesn't have a problem in open spaces which is why we do so well on the world boss. Enclosed spaces (forts) are biggest problem due to the advantage order gets in aoe, and stunties running around with undependable attacks. I have a full sov geared BO (yes SnB) and with heals on me I have been flattend in under 2-3 secs by a slayerball. I will never understand why making attacks undefendable is a thing, it's a cheap trick that rewards dumb play. Before anyone says it yes I'm spamming shatter enchantment as hard as I can, it doesn't matter.

'

The laughable part is that they bring nonsense like Zealot M4 "Windblock" as the end all be all OP ability around which Order had to adapt around, but also justifies all the other nifty tools in the order box.
30ft and 10 seconds of use on enemies with normally 8K health and above being bolstered by Focused Mending (15%), Exalted Defenses (%20), Blessings of Grungni (25%), Magical Infusion (25%). Total of 85% healing efficiency on any single target. If you are a Swordmaster add up Isha's Protection (20%) so more like 105% healing efficiency, without much work really, just smart healing.

How ANY Order Warband loses versus another Destro Warband is beyond me. Lack of coordination and class knowledge.

Side Note: Swordmaster's Bolstering Enchatments and Blessings of Heaving (got to hit target to heal here) are all affected by the above calculations and can be spread with AoE to all enemies in the vicinity. Guaranteeing 100% uptime for the group as a Support Swordmaster.

come one get real, Blessings of Grungi 25% increase, Zealot Blessings of Chaos 25% increase exactly the same. Magical Infusion 25% the same as Shaman Shrug it Off 25%.

Exalted defences is only triggered on defence so is only going to up very often on a front line Shield WP, but yeah that one tactic is the advantage as the DOK tactic is 20% for a single target on Crit, which is what makes the DOK the better damage melee healer as Dual wealder will proc more crits.

[marafado]

the players follow the path of less resistence, what we see here is ror culture: ppl trading xfaction gold (why dont let them sell toons), ppl need to play both factions to be legitimated as unbias to give an opinion about "balance".
i dont care a **** about the pro guilds that xrealm, what i care is about the ppl that allow/promote this playstyle.

[emiliorv]

Exalted defences is only triggered on defence so is only going to up very often on a front line Shield WP

Mate do you ever played WP at all?? lifetap heals are not affected by any +% healing (outgoing or incoming), so any **** shield WP is running ED.

ED is a core tactic for mostly (if not all) salv WPs...simply too good to not use.

[farng84]

Destro doesn't have a problem in open spaces which is why we do so well on the world boss. Enclosed spaces (forts) are biggest problem due to the advantage order gets in aoe, and stunties running around with undependable attacks. I have a full sov geared BO (yes SnB) and with heals on me I have been flattend in under 2-3 secs by a slayerball. I will never understand why making attacks undefendable is a thing, it's a cheap trick that rewards dumb play. Before anyone says it yes I'm spamming shatter enchantment as hard as I can, it doesn't matter.

'

The laughable part is that they bring nonsense like Zealot M4 "Windblock" as the end all be all OP ability around which Order had to adapt around, but also justifies all the other nifty tools in the order box.
30ft and 10 seconds of use on enemies with normally 8K health and above being bolstered by Focused Mending (15%), Exalted Defenses (%20), Blessings of Grungni (25%), Magical Infusion (25%). Total of 85% healing efficiency on any single target. If you are a Swordmaster add up Isha's Protection (20%) so more like 105% healing efficiency, without much work really, just smart healing.

How ANY Order Warband loses versus another Destro Warband is beyond me. Lack of coordination and class knowledge.

Side Note: Swordmaster's Bolstering Enchatments and Blessings of Heaving (got to hit target to heal here) are all affected by the above calculations and can be spread with AoE to all enemies in the vicinity. Guaranteeing 100% uptime for the group as a Support Swordmaster.

You do realize not all of those stack right? lol. Pretty sure only things that stack are abilities, tactics and then morales. And I say "pretty sure" because even then there are exceptions like how "eye shot" initiative debuff from an ability doesn't stack with the "wrist slash" initiative debuff from a tactic that SW's have.

Focused Mending is 15% increased incoming heals from a tactic, so if a SM is running Isha's Protection that takes priorityj, like wise if a RP is running Blessing of Grungni that takes priority, These DO NOT STACK.

yeah these don't stack bud


Pretty funny how you did not even know this. Thought your post was a meme at first.

How ANY destro doesn't know this and still claims to know the game is BEYOND ME <- see how silly you sound?

Again Order isn't the OP boogeyman you make them out to be

True and agree.
But there was a post time ago (can't find it sorry), where the healing output buffs from order and destro were compared, and healing debuffs included to the equation (I think it was still over 60% heal buff after removing max debuff, but it is not a certain number).
Order have much larger healing buff compared to destro in any scenario where both healer and tanks are present. That is just a fact

[Gurf]

Exalted defences is only triggered on defence so is only going to up very often on a front line Shield WP

Mate do you ever played WP at all?? lifetap heals are not affected by any +% healing (outgoing or incoming), so any **** shield WP is running ED.

ED is a core tactic for mostly (if not all) salv WPs...simply too good to not use.

Yeah I play WP, in Warband situations as Grace you don't only use lifetap heals or your entire party will die, you still have to do your regular groups heals

[Gurf]

'

The laughable part is that they bring nonsense like Zealot M4 "Windblock" as the end all be all OP ability around which Order had to adapt around, but also justifies all the other nifty tools in the order box.
30ft and 10 seconds of use on enemies with normally 8K health and above being bolstered by Focused Mending (15%), Exalted Defenses (%20), Blessings of Grungni (25%), Magical Infusion (25%). Total of 85% healing efficiency on any single target. If you are a Swordmaster add up Isha's Protection (20%) so more like 105% healing efficiency, without much work really, just smart healing.

How ANY Order Warband loses versus another Destro Warband is beyond me. Lack of coordination and class knowledge.

Side Note: Swordmaster's Bolstering Enchatments and Blessings of Heaving (got to hit target to heal here) are all affected by the above calculations and can be spread with AoE to all enemies in the vicinity. Guaranteeing 100% uptime for the group as a Support Swordmaster.

You do realize not all of those stack right? lol. Pretty sure only things that stack are abilities, tactics and then morales. And I say "pretty sure" because even then there are exceptions like how "eye shot" initiative debuff from an ability doesn't stack with the "wrist slash" initiative debuff from a tactic that SW's have.

Focused Mending is 15% increased incoming heals from a tactic, so if a SM is running Isha's Protection that takes priorityj, like wise if a RP is running Blessing of Grungni that takes priority, These DO NOT STACK.

yeah these don't stack bud


Pretty funny how you did not even know this. Thought your post was a meme at first.

How ANY destro doesn't know this and still claims to know the game is BEYOND ME <- see how silly you sound?

Again Order isn't the OP boogeyman you make them out to be

True and agree.
But there was a post time ago (can't find it sorry), where the healing output buffs from order and destro were compared, and healing debuffs included to the equation (I think it was still over 60% heal buff after removing max debuff, but it is not a certain number).
Order have much larger healing buff compared to destro in any scenario where both healer and tanks are present. That is just a fact

If you want to have a reasonable discussion people shouldn't bring in all the buffs like RP and AM which are mirrored exactly on the other side as an example of Bias.

The reality is that Order has a slight advantage due to combo of WP and KOBS, all the rest people are talking about here is complete BS. Its a question of whether the advantages of what Destro have outweigh that, things like extra cooldown decreaser, better tank damage, better group synergy, extra class than can do melee aoe, easy access to aoe heal debuff, morale pumps.

But the differences aren't particularly large, Destro still win most Scenarios, better rate at City, and if you are in an organised premade you will still beat pugs and a better skilled/equiped premade will beat a worse one no matter what side you are on.

[emiliorv]

Exalted defences is only triggered on defence so is only going to up very often on a front line Shield WP

Mate do you ever played WP at all?? lifetap heals are not affected by any +% healing (outgoing or incoming), so any **** shield WP is running ED.

ED is a core tactic for mostly (if not all) salv WPs...simply too good to not use.

Yeah I play WP, in Warband situations as Grace you don't only use lifetap heals or your entire party will die, you still have to do your regular groups heals

Dunno what build you running, but as melee-healer usually slot divine fury...really dont get the point to use 1 tactic to reduce 25% healing and other to increase +20%...and also really dont get the point to use casted heals when using a melee setup (armor+mastery+renown)...if work for you ok, but dont look like a usual build/setup.

[farng84]

If you want to have a reasonable discussion people shouldn't bring in all the buffs like RP and AM which are mirrored exactly on the other side as an example of Bias.

The reality is that Order has a slight advantage due to combo of WP and KOBS, all the rest people are talking about here is complete BS. Its a question of whether the advantages of what Destro have outweigh that, things like extra cooldown decreaser, better tank damage, better group synergy, extra class than can do melee aoe, easy access to aoe heal debuff, morale pumps.

But the differences aren't particularly large, Destro still win most Scenarios, better rate at City, and if you are in an organised premade you will still beat pugs and a better skilled/equiped premade will beat a worse one no matter what side you are on.

Yes, again I agree, it is not like order is the op monster. what I was saying it is just don't trash the whole discussion because the main point is that overall, order has a better healing output (without putting a number, but not OP better, that for sure).

Please only let's not talk too much about tank damage...it makes me think of 2h tanks on fort pushes (on both sides) and I feel sad

[Schweedy]

come one get real, Blessings of Grungi 25% increase, Zealot Blessings of Chaos 25% increase exactly the same. Magical Infusion 25% the same as Shaman Shrug it Off 25%.

Exalted defences is only triggered on defence so is only going to up very often on a front line Shield WP, but yeah that one tactic is the advantage as the DOK tactic is 20% for a single target on Crit, which is what makes the DOK the better damage melee healer as Dual wealder will proc more crits.

The point was to address the compound healing involved. Also if you don't have Exalted Defenses in a Keep/City/Or Fort defense I would absolutely classify you as a bad Salvation Warrior priest, considering the AoE flying all over the place. Come one man. Get Real.

Also BoG does stack with itself, multiplicatively it has been tested. This game is bugged in ways you can't even fathom. I am actually scared to test out all the stacking rules on Order.

You do realize not all of those stack right? lol. Pretty sure only things that stack are abilities, tactics and then morales.
Focused Mending is 15% increased incoming heals from a tactic, so if a SM is running Isha's Protection that takes priorityj, like wise if a RP is running Blessing of Grungni that takes priority, These DO NOT STACK
yeah these don't stack bud
Pretty funny how you did not even know this. Thought your post was a meme at first.
How ANY destro doesn't know this and still claims to know the game is BEYOND ME <- see how silly you sound?
Again Order isn't the OP boogeyman you make them out to be

Your "scientific" pretty sure doesn't cut here bud. Check out @emiliorv to see the stacking rules.

Also there are weird multiplicative Tactics like Blessings of Grungni, which does stack with itself (though not to 50% like you would think). See how silly you sound?

The entire point of my post was to annotate the compound healing involved. If someone has thoroughly tested the stacking (with all it's variables) as working as intended I would like to see the post, since there seem to be a lot of willfully blind folks around here. I don't play order, so feel free to educate me thoroughly.