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[Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

After feedback has reached it's viable limit, it will retire here to keep the main section clean and tidy.

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dansari
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[Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#1 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:31 pm

We are going to start creating feedback forums for patch notes instead of providing explanations within the patch notes themselves. The goal here is to provide clarity on why something was changed without muddying up patch notes. Since there seem to be some questions as to the direction of balance changes:

Jon (peterthepan3) and I are taking point on balance changes going forward, working with the developers to implement changes (since neither of us code). We take feedback from the community, then hash it out before coming to a consensus on what needs changing. With that said, let's get into this week's patch:

As many people will likely be frustrated with White Lion, I will try to assuage concerns about future-state for the class and what our vision is for it. Note: when I say "our" vision, I'm referring to peter and I, working with members of the community, to determine what the players want to see, what the issues are, their experiences, etc. What this means: we will do our best to develop a class that has viable 6man and warband specs. What this doesn't mean: your individual, specific concerns with the class will be addressed. The latter is simply not something that peter or I can absolutely promise to be delivered because someone within the community will inevitably feel that something needs updating, but the former is because that is our goal for every class.

What we've gathered from the community on the Woodsman tree patch is that while the changes technically made the class better with a higher skill ceiling, though at times clunky, the entire theme of the class was, for lack of a better word, butchered. Moving Loner to a renown tactic certainly opened up the possibility for a higher damage dealing class and allowed essential Woodsman tactics to be slotted, but it rendered the pet completely useless in all builds. Moving Pounce up to 13pt Axeman was viewed as an essential change so as not to allow warband WLs the opportunity to wreak havoc in a backline, but it also removed easy access to the very real love that WL players have for having such mobility (a true theme of the class that Squig Herder has trended towards taking over); it also rendered the 13pt Hunter relatively un-specced. It basically dismissed existing, fun, Hunter/Axe builds, to attempt to fit it into a Marauder-lite mold. So, while we are reverting WL to an almost-vanilla state, we will not leave it that way for long. Looking to the future of the class, we plan to implement many of the good things we got from Woodsman patch: a viable aoe build and a more defined separation of the trees. We plan to make the pet an integral part of the gameplay, and instead of dropping it completely in warband play we will at least attempt to find creative ways to include it (though again, we can't promise that the pet will exist in warband specs if it is proven to be too difficult to balance around -- the promise is that we will traverse every path in which to respect the theme of the class before going down an alternate path).

====

Shaman/AM AP drain
Shaman, moreso than AM, has had tough AP issues for a while. Reverting the disrupt changes helped in being able to land successful AP drains, but there were still issues with the creative way this was implemented. Firstly, it caused even more AP issues in PvE encounters as a Blessing was necessary for the AP drain. Secondly, the AP cost is simply too punishing. Dropping this to 30 will hopefully make it less punishing to use for both classes, as well as serve as a reliable source of AP as long as you're being good on choosing low disrupt targets.

====

Shaman Hurts, Don't It
The goal here is to give Shaman more burst dps in dps builds, similar to what AM received with Searing Touch.

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Archmage Radiant Burst
We were beginning to see powercreep on dps AM. This will potentially help in that regard but with all things, we will continue to assess its strength.

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Black Orc/SM Wee'z Bigger/Vaul's Tempering
This was grossly overperforming in warband, allowing 7s of being able to run through the enemy and drop morales. We are drastically reducing its potency in an effort of making it a more high skill, strategic ability rather than a fire-and-forget (given that you could keep 46% uptime on it with Whispering Winds, for example, did not make it strategic). I would like to state that it's still subject to change, as with everything we implement, so we still have these two abilities on our radar and how they can counter more specific problems in terms of CC.

====

Engineer Armor-Piercing Rounds
Strafing Run had no business being at 13pt Rifleman. As it is seen as an essential warband tool for engineers, we've moved it to core Tinkerer. In its place, developing a high cooldown buff for Rifleman seemed the best option, since there were potential powercreep issues with providing things like a ranged knockdown, a ranged slow, an unbreakable root, etc. This still provides counterplay to the Rifleman by LOSing him, but does give him a lethal buff to add to his arsenal. As with all things, we will assess how this develops going forward.

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WH/WE Ferver/Envenomed Blade
Having these be made cleansable is both a nerf and a buff, the nerf being that now high tick damage abilities can be counterplayed correctly, the buff being that now they can essentially be used to cover other dots.

====

Now that the patch notes have been addressed, and since this is a new process we’re trying, I’ll also attempt to answer some questions I saw in the actual patch notes thread:

Firstly, changes to WL are simply too much to air here. The easiest way to view what is changing with WL is to play the class. There will be many bugs with it, and we honestly know that it’s not fun being a WL main at the moment. We ask that you simply trust the new direction and to trust the process. We are working diligently on providing a fun, viable class in every facet of the game.

“Could we comment on SW changes in the future”
Not entirely. It’s on our radar, but specs have not been hashed out fully yet. Sorry for the political-type answer, but for the purpose of being transparent, yet conservative on how much I can promise what is to come, I feel that approach is necessary. We will likely dedicate more time to WL at the moment, but we realize that SW needs further tuning.

“Order warband meta with loss of WL”
Yeah, I hear you. We realize that a lot was lost with a strong WL front in warband. Again, we ask you trust the process.

“When can we expect knight/chosen changes”
Kind of the same answer for SW above. WL will likely take precedent in the immediate future. Knight/Chosen is on the radar, but nothing at the moment. Goal is to make it have a higher skill ceiling, be less boring, more strategic, etc.

“Now that we’re reverting Aza changes…”
That’s not what we’re doing. Balance is assessed holistically; it’s not a vendetta against a developer. We decided that continuing with stances did not provide a methodological way of evolving the class. Reverting to vanilla at least allows us to tune the class where necessary, bring it back to its original intent (including pet), and tweak from there.

Whew, OK. Wall of text done. As time progresses, more of our thoughts on certain classes will get hashed out and we’ll be able to provide more to you here. We’ll do as much as possible to provide clarity on patches and future balance changes.

Cheers,
Dan
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Ugle
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#2 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:37 pm

Thumbs up! :)
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Zaxxond
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#3 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:42 pm

When are the BW buffs coming?
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Mausini
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#4 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:45 pm

Thanks for the letter. Good step into the right direction.

Can you now send me 200 Gold for changing all my Tails again, for the 3 time now? I have no clue how to afford that without spending a lot of time in farming gold that I actually wanted to use for playing the "core" game.

Thats getting odd somehow.

dansari
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#5 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:46 pm

Zaxxond wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:42 pm
When are the BW buffs coming?
:D nothing planned at the moment bud.
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Arconnn
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#6 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:46 pm

"Moving Pounce up to 13pt Axeman was viewed as an essential change so as not to allow warband WLs the opportunity to wreak havoc in a backline"

But Warband Melee Squig's can do the same, and arguably wreck more havoc in terms of a single player strongly effecting many people with the use of 1 or 2 skills? not only safely being able to do it, but consistently on extremely important targets without any risk involved, but maximum reward.

The philosophy for strong abilities should be from the stance to pull those strong abilities off, it will either take high skill to pull off, or if your enemy fails to counter it you're able to pull it off. Currently it doesn't take much skill to do this, and i fail to see how an enemy can counter what the Squig does do to a back line.

Idk, would be cool for you to look into and perhaps restructure how easy it is to pull off what the Melee Squig is able to do, if that's your stance on WL pounce

Cool thread idea, i appreciate the ability to give direct feedback, especially publicly on forum
Last edited by Arconnn on Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dansari
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#7 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:48 pm

Mausini wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:45 pm
Thanks for the letter. Good step into the right direction.

Can you now send me 200 Gold for changing all my Tails again, for the 3 time now? I have no clue how to afford that without spending a lot of time in farming gold that I actually wanted to use for playing the "core" game.

Thats getting odd somehow.
:( I know that sucks. That's certainly not our intent, but an inevitable byproduct of the changes we've done. Might I suggest apothecary/cultivating? It's a pretty rewarding, easy craft path.
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#8 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:49 pm

Thanks mang

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Aerogath
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#9 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:49 pm

Eventuelly the Mara aoe stun should be moved too, he has no cappable builds even the Choppa has a stun.

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Andr0s
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Patch Sept 18 2018

Post#10 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:51 pm

dansari wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:31 pm
We plan to make the pet an integral part of the gameplay, and instead of dropping it completely in warband play we will at least attempt to find creative ways to include it (though again, we can't promise that the pet will exist in warband specs if it is proven to be too difficult to balance around -- the promise is that we will traverse every path in which to respect the theme of the class before going down an alternate path).
Just to clarify does this mean you are planning to remove Loner builds as a viable way to play? Just want to know so I stop playing my WL now rather than in 3 months.

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