[Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

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Tesq
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Re: Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#131 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:15 pm

i dont agree much on some core feature specialization, for exemple push different cast time for ress would be bad due to dok being a front liners and such, it fill like give a different charge to choppa and a different one to marauder.....
There are some different elements which should be revived for me such allow am/sh to g-heal on the move.
If you want different the healers then start with 1 utility each one and keep go on.

moreal boost, g-cleanse, heal increase would be a good starting point.

when the changes happened to dok/wp i tough from one side that restric to stance was a good idea from the other use the procs was a bad one because do you even coutned how many utility bring a zealot/rune? what bring dok /WP ?

footpatrol said once that dok had a moral boost so once again , tools were removed but classes had those; with out go into to much touch/change core feature such as ress

if you start to write differents utility group wide and you give 1/2x to each race and 2x to each class archtype then you have 4 x staff not perfect mirrored x class with out touch too much things as g-heals/ress which are core feature much like guard/charge.

dok: moral boost(lost this but got the g-clease as wp )/proc / M2 g-cleanse, / ap for party
wp: parry buff outgoin heals for 20% / proc /g-cleanse /ap for party

rune: armr buff + ign reduction/ ap for group /heal increase / mass istant ress
zealot armr buff + ign reduction / ap for group /heal increase / aoe undefitable channeling KB which give no immunity

am: moral boost / (heals under x%life)? / (g-heals on the move)? / ?
sh : dmg increase? (here we go) / ?(heals under x%life)? / (g-heals on the move) ? / (bind to hot ap tactic )?


this is just an exemple and maybe some old live version skill which i dont know about could feel the holes or ppl may argument over single target utility i dont know but for me it's pretty possible give every healer his little specialization with out impact stuff as ress and due to how many tools i see over dok/wp/am/zealot they could hadpossible had at least 4 tools each which probably be able to take realistic 3/4 with redundancy for balance sake. Of course am/sh for my ingnorance of old live version are a bit messed or not really good.
If anyway the scheme was near to something like this there would be classes that have way less good stuff than others with the ap for group be the most redundancy things over all healers.

for a easier balance maybe 3x class g-feature would solve the problem 1x2 racial, 1x2 bind class arcytype, 1x2 cross mirrored
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footpatrol2
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Re: Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#132 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:15 pm

Yeah I somewhat disagree with you roadkillrobin but not completely. Thats ok we can disagree. I can get into a long detailed explanation on why I disagree with you but it would be too derailing to this thread so I'll just drop it. You can probably guess where i'd carry the conversation too.

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Re: Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#133 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:55 pm

Tesq wrote:i dont agree much on some core feature specialization, for exemple push different cast time for ress would be bad due to dok being a front liners and such, it fill like give a different charge to choppa and a different one to marauder.....
There are some different elements which should be revived for me such allow am/sh to g-heal on the move.
If you want different the healers then start with 1 utility each one and keep go on.

moreal boost, g-cleanse, heal increase would be a good starting point.

when the changes happened to dok/wp i tough from one side that restric to stance was a good idea from the other use the procs was a bad one because do you even coutned how many utility bring a zealot/rune? what bring dok /WP ?

footpatrol said once that dok had a moral boost so once again , tools were removed but classes had those; with out go into to much touch/change core feature such as ress

if you start to write differents utility group wide and you give 1/2x to each race and 2x to each class archtype then you have 4 x staff not perfect mirrored x class with out touch too much things as g-heals/ress which are core feature much like guard/charge.

dok: moral boost(lost this but got the g-clease as wp )/proc / M2 g-cleanse, / ap for party
wp: parry buff outgoin heals for 20% / proc /g-cleanse /ap for party

rune: armr buff + ign reduction/ ap for group /heal increase / mass istant ress
zealot armr buff + ign reduction / ap for group /heal increase / aoe undefitable channeling KB which give no immunity

am: moral boost / (heals under x%life)? / (g-heals on the move)? / ?
sh : dmg increase? (here we go) / ?(heals under x%life)? / (g-heals on the move) ? / (bind to hot ap tactic )?


this is just an exemple and maybe some old live version skill which i dont know about could feel the holes or ppl may argument over single target utility i dont know but for me it's pretty possible give every healer his little specialization with out impact stuff as ress and due to how many tools i see over dok/wp/am/zealot they could hadpossible had at least 4 tools each which probably be able to take realistic 3/4 with redundancy for balance sake. Of course am/sh for my ingnorance of old live version are a bit messed or not really good.
If anyway the scheme was near to something like this there would be classes that have way less good stuff than others with the ap for group be the most redundancy things over all healers.

for a easier balance maybe 3x class g-feature would solve the problem 1x2 racial, 1x2 bind class arcytype, 1x2 cross mirrored
I agree.

Honestly too many changes for dok/wp i don't like it anymore i will wait for others fix or i will reroll another healer
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roadkillrobin
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Re: Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#134 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:23 am

DoK/WP had 6sec ressurect all the way up to 1.3.5 I think it was. They also had very bad single target healing capacity. Its not my idea. Its how they were designed. And how the healing trinity was working in general. For DoK or WP to single target heal they had to use Rend Soul and Divine Assault in combination with the other ST skills. Both RS and DA were located in DR and Sal masteries at that point. And to obtain good regen they needed to be in melee range. Isn't this all they the RoR devs is looking for? An excuse for the classes to stay in melee range to warrent the medium robe armor class?
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Tesq
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Re: Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#135 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:56 am

ye, that's also when they nerfed g-heal, becausa dok/wp had the best g-heals in game, that was also a flaw in the system, which is why im not sure that will be good have marked difference on core stuff; even if there is a difference in cast time g-heal are linked a bit to cast time and thus a more balanced now, same talk for ress; diference in ress could lead to some heal be rejected due not be able to fast bring back ppl. The st thing could go, i wouldn't mind go melee in small skirm for st healing. Just keep in mind that the channeling is strong but can be interrupt and is not aviable all the time, while a backline healer can in fact st heal all the time. I would prefer that dok/wp had a st spamable melee heal in place of the channeling and then keep the TE/SR for g-heals. That will allow to nerf the g-heal component we have right now but also when in melee give the chance to keep healing st. Now if it wouldn't for the melee g-heal only with the channeling you would not be able to keep up ppl as healer. I understand anyway your idea,it's exatly what i recalled some post above by write about how dok/wp played in t1.
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roadkillrobin
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Re: Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#136 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:04 pm

I wouldn't bring back the old Gheal. It had the same vallues as AM/Sham one. But at 1 sec cast and 1,5 CD. Wich on paper have the same hps. The group HoT was about 50% of the vallue it is now. So the only nerf that really happened was the ghealing costs when you look at the big picture. So what really happened was getting added single target heal preformance and ressurection boost. The addution of KI and DM also reballanced the resource nerf as these costs AP. Remove those boosts and force em to melee to burst heal and regen resources and you get what warrents medium robe armor imo.
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Tesq
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Re: Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#137 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:28 pm

roadkillrobin wrote:I wouldn't bring back the old Gheal. It had the same vallues as AM/Sham one. But at 1 sec cast and 1,5 CD. Wich on paper have the same hps. The group HoT was about 50% of the vallue it is now. So the only nerf that really happened was the ghealing costs when you look at the big picture. So what really happened was getting added single target heal preformance and ressurection boost. The addution of KI and DM also reballanced the resource nerf as these costs AP. Remove those boosts and force em to melee to burst heal and regen resources and you get what warrents medium robe armor imo.
uhm it rebalanced nothing, well not for group healing at least, a st heal boost was needed some how because wp/dok used only g-heal for everything (g-hael and aoe heals mean absorb on crit proc more often also so make you loose a GCD for the hot well was a kind of nerf), the high cost of the resource now force you anyway in melee range for spaming g-heal , what is happened it's that of course you can back line for st but that was the aim of that fix as long as nerf the g-heals all along.
Also both channeling for backline rec and the st heal consum ap if you get a prolonged ap drain over yourself you get in trouble, that of course mean you can use 1 ap potion or 2(with otu count the ap from oth er healers). Still as backline healer the ap controll was important anyway; that's why in live most of ppl i know and me too runned in live with ap tactic instead willpower here i still have need to find a reason to spec it; my ap cosume feel really low on my dok compared to live when im healing, (my choppa too to tell the true).
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-"Loop warned into oblivion" --> smell like chaosy enought :D
-Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D
-GMs --> dosent matter what they say not, they get offend by colors so watch out plebs! :D

Hroft
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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#138 » Mon May 29, 2017 2:43 pm

Healing DoKs are in a worst shape now,they are worst healers in the game....What is the point of the class that has burst healing mechanics(1 sec heals spam,run out of SE then regen) when burst healing is gone?

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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#139 » Mon May 29, 2017 3:03 pm

Well... I did make a proposal that could make melee doks heal a LOT better :D - but it has yet to be moved to discussion. Soooo if that goes in it could beneficial to have a melee healer in the party :D.

But to stay on topic - yes Healing DoK is painful to play now. I really can't burst heal anyone, I spam hots and cleanses and that is about it. Most of my big games healing wise come from having a zealot boosting heals when in reality a decent shaman could heal 2-3x what I can lol. Even with the nerf they just had.

What is frustrating to me is people don't realize that healing DoK's aren't even close to what they were. So you'll go heals and they will actually blame it on other things because they had a healing DoK so they shouldn't have died right? Having played every healer in the game beside an AM (only got to 20 or so), it is a shame that I used to love WP/DoK healing and now.. I just roll melee on them and do pug SC's and if I need to actually RvR heal a shaman with literally NO gear outheals my DoK 2-3x and I'm terrible at it.

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Re: [Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

Post#140 » Mon May 29, 2017 3:56 pm

Imho the main problem is the regen fury or the cost of the skills to heal. With the sovereign i think the problem can be solved but at moment i don't enjoy to play the WP. I'm using the AM right now and it's 100 times better and more fun. Most of the time specially vs premade if you go in melee range you are dead with WP (speaking on order side).
On live i could stay easily in melee range and /lol people around but of course now is totally different :lol:
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