[Implementation Feedback] Warrior Priest / Disciple of Khaine

[roadkillrobin]

Whats not considered at all is that WAR was also designed to be just as much of a PVE game as PVP one. So the reason for hybrid builds being somewhat reseved was moast likly due to not creating a PVE solo monster. We saw dps WP/DoK solo content designed for 6man griups at the end of the lifespam of the live servers. So its gonna be intreasting to see how the current changes gonna translate when PVE dungeons are introduced. My guess is that they are gonna massivly overperform. Thats just one reason why you don't wanna create a class that can selfheal like a healer while putting out dps like a raw dps class, while still able to ress teammates.

[Azarael]

Even if the immense amounts of aggro you would generate for doing that didn't kill you, we would be able to tweak lifesteals based on the target type very easily.

[roadkillrobin]

The problem isn't aggro if you're able to solo content designed for 6 people. Seriusly I was able to get trough bosses in LV in Worn Sov gear on live. With a spec that was considered to shitty for purpose of main healing in PVP. Maybe the problems with Grace/Sacrifice actually wasn't the problem. But rather the burst damage in the game in general. Wich lead to Dark Rites/Salvation really was the only viable option to go. Thats always been my take on it atleast.

[Sigimund]

selfheal like a healer while putting out dps like a raw dps class

As long as they can't do it at the same time it should be ok, or at least not different from live.

[Tesq]

I reiterate that I will not give you an option to ignore your melee side. Your mechanic is to power your casted heals through meleeing. That Salvation/Wrath was the dominant spec (and that only because of AoE detaunt in Wrath tree) was a joke.

if a wilpower buff is not enough ( loose 100+ on each heal should be well...) you can in that stance, bind the g-heal to a cd which will be directly reduced by any melee heal done so you are forced to cycle between melee hit and cast; tough any disarm will count as cd increase bascially.

Best option is to make the duration of the willpower buff very low OR apply a buff which with out several lower your heals so that every 5 sec or lesser you are forced to re apply it. Still get in the face the zerg because you cant spam g-heals suck unless set back go and the de-taunt is change directly into a dmg reduction for the dok/wp

[roadkillrobin]

selfheal like a healer while putting out dps like a raw dps class

As long as they can't do it at the same time it should be ok, or at least not different from live.

No but you have the option to use those skills for example if all your healers dies, you can ress them or if a healer getting CC'd and a teammate getting low on health you can use your heals or melee heals to keep another a team mate alive. And if you have the same dps output as the other dps classes you get a class that just much better then others. Hence why the dps potential on healer archetype can't be on par with dps classes as that makes em obsolete. And when you then translate this to PVE then why bring a healbot if you got healers who put out damage while healing just as good, or in it's current state of SHAM/AM /WP/DOK heals even better then healbot classes. It makes no sence tbh.

[Tesq]

selfheal like a healer while putting out dps like a raw dps class

As long as they can't do it at the same time it should be ok, or at least not different from live.

No but you have the option to use those skills for example if all your healers dies, you can ress them or if a healer getting CC'd and a teammate getting low on health you can use your heals or melee heals to keep another a team mate alive. And if you have the same dps output as the other dps classes you get a class that just much better then others. Hence why the dps potential on healer archetype can't be on par with dps classes as that makes em obsolete. And when you then translate this to PVE then why bring a healbot if you got healers who put out damage while healing just as good, or in it's current state of SHAM/AM /WP/DOK heals even better then healbot classes. It makes no sence tbh.

on this regarg the idea is that hybrid classes get taken in place of 1 dd when the meta is too much in favour of damages ttk is low in every condition and heal are teh solution and keep you alive more easier. Which in war never happened due to several other interations:

so it should be balanced around "ways" to heal rather than do 2 role at the same time, you can "play" hybrid with out actually be a god and do 1121432k of damages. PLay hybdrid dosen't mean be a hybrid class it's just how the meccanic work (exemple are shammy/am original meccanic, i think it was meant to play hybrid with out be actually a healer /dps unless you spec for it and let back most heal tools. Play it follow a hybrid meccanic is harder but should be more rewardable ( a little bit). Aka some small heal that ingore h/debuff for exemple and fluff dmg. I think that hybrid should be a way to play one class not the definition for the role; role must remain healer or DD and must be perfect separate at all cost. If any real hybrid want to be take into a group then it need another hybrid in the same group so that they both give 50% of 1 char for both heal and dmg, This is something that i call balance.

[Sigimund]

Career balance in ToVL seems like a problem we will not need to think about for a while tbh

[roadkillrobin]

@Tesq

No all the healer classes were designed to be hybrid classes by intent. Moast likly for PVE purpose. AM/SHam were a healx5 then use a damagaing spell when oppurtunity comes, while DoK/WP heals trough dps and Zealot/RP mastery paths indicates they were more of alternating between dps/healing at will. The pure dps specs were moast likly designed for solo questing and the pure healspecs designed for PVP. This is moasty asumptions from my part but makes sence from a PVE perspective. What killed these specs and some of the mechanics from working in PVP is the CC+Burst Damage potential in the game. Hence the need for pure healing builds over hybrids. The mechanic was proboly never meant to be the delivery of the heals rather then how to get damage bonus from the healers.

[Tesq]

@Tesq

No all the healer classes were designed to be hybrid classes by intent. Moast likly for PVE purpose. AM/SHam were a healx5 then use a damagaing spell when oppurtunity comes, while DoK/WP heals trough dps and Zealot/RP mastery paths indicates they were more of alternating between dps/healing at will. The pure dps specs were moast likly designed for solo questing and the pure healspecs designed for PVP. This is moasty asumptions from my part but makes sence from a PVE perspective. What killed these specs and some of the mechanics from working in PVP is the CC+Burst Damage potential in the game. Hence the need for pure healing builds over hybrids. The mechanic was proboly never meant to be the delivery of the heals rather then how to get damage bonus from the healers.

i can agree on that that's way i said small advantage and fluff dmg while play a hybrid role; but that dosen't change the fact for me that am/sh meccanic is indicative of a meccanic that must be play hybrid regardless the role you have.
I agree too on the pve matter but im tassative in my view about the separation between heal and Damages, you can't do both and play a hybrid meccanic is different to make you a hybrid class /give you a hybrid role like healer/dps.

the only solution would be that every class is a damage dealer by nature then and then have a secondary role such tank or healer and then for dd would be do even more damages; tough damages in game and actually the burst type is quite heavy, that's a set up that was heavy nerfed; look at all tank dmg nerf over the history and how ppl still/always blame the tank for being not only tanky but also be able to lash out a fair ammount of dmg. Moreover this set up for the party composition it's indicative that the ttk is really high and everyone need to make dmg which is not what war meta is and was 90% of the time ( i remember only sov meta be a bit different; much more controll meta at least on my server)