[Implementation Feedback] RvR design

[Vandoles]

And let me reply to your philosophy - you are implying that the reason the aggressor chooses to sit in the keep and not attack is because that is more profitable. That is entirely wrong. With the new system a keep capture is always a zone lock as well. And a keep + lock is ALWAYS more profitable than diminishing returns on orvr kills. The real reason order does not attack the keep is twofold - first of all because the current system stretches gameplay over the map outside keep sieges themselves. This is working as intended. Second of all, with the zerg nerfed, order cannot dominate. A keep siege is always geared towards the defender. Don't believe I need to explain this. The weakness of the zerg leads to stalemates. This is also working as intended. This is when the fight needs to stretch over the zone.

The issue is that the fight simply doesn't happen, because the side with the numbers/advantage sits afk in the keep until they get in a situation to take it. This is because there is no reason for casuals and pug WBs to play around the zone, because they will get destroyed and receive no reward.

And when they cannot participate in the lake orvr fight, they sit in the keep and adopt a cheap tactic of zerging you on BOs, since it's easy to organise everyone to a burning flag.

Your solution is the vulgar one - punish those who play wrongly and ban them from doing so. This is what led to this situation - if you want such a change, that means you are ok with stalemates and a lack of fights. There is a more elegant solution, as I said - small-scale rebalance, class balance that makes it POSSIBLE for most classes to play against others (of course certain things like a stealthier being anti-caster or tank anti-mdps are the natural order of things). And many other small fixes that allow less hardcore play, while ensuring hardcore play gets an edge.

[Vandoles]

Beavers/Invasion, GA/Radiant Knights, FHRER are the ones we're running into the moast.

Those are two warbands (sometimes 3). Rarely on at the same time. That's all you'll have left if we stay down this path.

[Buran]

2roadkillrobin:

I know there are guilds on Order that are doing organized warbands as we face em all the time. So no this is not a PuG vs Premadee issue.

IMHO.
I was RL of open WBs. It Is hard to make partyes of 2 tanks, 2 DDs, 2 heals, when hard to obey your command, but... possible. Ofcouse coordination in voice better then coordination in the game chat. But this game is about RvR and is about playing in party. When i hear about zerging, i understand that people want to win, but don't want to work for win. They think that they consumers, but essentially they are constructors of future.

The wins depend of order/destro organisation. This is the main purpose of RvR and this is the Great.

[Vandoles]

I wholeheartedly agree about people not being able to win without working to win.

However, it doesn't have to be extremes - either work hard and win or be denied anything. Should be possible to not put in effort and only time, i.e. play relaxed and still participate.

[Buran]

Which organised order premades are you talking about? Because I play exclusively order and there's two organised wbs - the Russians and the big alliance one. Both are not that organised and they're on every other day.

Invasion + Beavers
Usually we have 6-7partyes in 2WB with voice coordination, every Mo-Th in event time. And we have 3-4partyes in the one WB + different premade partyes in the each evening of the other days .

[Vandoles]

Yeh, I know, I've been kicked and ignored by the leader (not you, was a majority russian WB with someone else) from your WB because someone said something in russian I didn't understand and couldn't follow

That's where part of the problem comes, that russians refuse to teamplay with others. That's fine, you're russians, we're not changing that.

But it does mean order can never organize itself effectively in anything else than a bigger zerg.

[lastalien]

Explain why the presence of a larger number of Russian-speaking players in the WB, communication in TS must not go to the Russian?
In my opinion, if the English-speaking players can be organized in the WB and have your own TS, then from our side, we may send a person in your TS for coordination. And the problem here is not in Russian, but the fact that you yourself is closed community.

To understand, in our situation, Wb chat is used to flooding, as we do not allow it in the TS.

Let guild leaders give their addresses TS, and we can well coordinate with them.

Often, we are coordinating with the leaders of the WB in the area of in game chat (t4 or whisper), in my opinion it is enough if propably use constantly.

Making coordination and joint game with PUG not possible. It is necessary that the leader would appear to be to organize the PUG's WB.

[Vdova]

If numbers are balanced and there are 4 oranized WBs against 4 organized WBs in zone, it means You will never take enemy keep. Just reminder

[Buran]

Yeh, I know, I've been kicked and ignored by the leader (not you, was a majority russian WB with someone else) from your WB because someone said something in russian I didn't understand and couldn't follow

That's where part of the problem comes, that russians refuse to teamplay with others. That's fine, you're russians, we're not changing that.

But it does mean order can never organize itself effectively in anything else than a bigger zerg.

There are some russians RLs, which communicate with foreigns RLs. Usually this are RLs of opened WB. As for me, i very often speak with RLs of opened WB when i lead. For example i was RL in 13/11/16 and yesterday. We cover Avocetti with ram at BC yesterday, made push and deffended in cave of destro keep in BC at sunday with Morgry's WB. But i agree with u that usually language it is a wall between different nations.

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY68hcX ... e=youtu.be

There are some objective reasons to have The Dialog. We are ready to speak and communicate with RLs of orders WB, which can speak in EN or RU. We have TS. We can do a lot of nessesary things together.

[Vandoles]

Yeh, I know, I've been kicked and ignored by the leader (not you, was a majority russian WB with someone else) from your WB because someone said something in russian I didn't understand and couldn't follow

That's where part of the problem comes, that russians refuse to teamplay with others. That's fine, you're russians, we're not changing that.

But it does mean order can never organize itself effectively in anything else than a bigger zerg.

There are some russians RLs, which communicate with foreigns RLs. Usually this are RLs of opened WB. As for me, i very often speak with RLs of opened WB when i lead. For example i was RL in 13/11/16 and yesterday. We cover Avocetti with ram at BC yesterday, made push and deffended in cave of destro keep in BC at sunday with Morgry's WB. But i agree with u that usually language it is a wall between different nations.

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY68hcX ... e=youtu.be

There are some objective reasons to have The Dialog. We are ready to speak and communicate with RLs of orders WB, which can speak in EN or RU. We have TS. We can do a lot of nessesary things together.

We can and it happens, but oftentimes there's a MAJOR problem. I lead a lot of open WBs and I often beg russians to talk to me and they refuse. Sometimes they talk, everytime I've seen you lead, you talk.

The language barrier won't disappear, nor will the refusal of some people to work with others. I was more trying to make it to illustrate my point that the game being built around organized rvr alone has major issues.