Recent Topics

Ads

[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

After feedback has reached it's viable limit, it will retire here to keep the main section clean and tidy.
User avatar
Jaycub
Posts: 3130

[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

Post#1 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:18 am

Specifically looking at this bug report on github back in june,

https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/182


It's found that the morale gain increase that was on live when you were in a full party is not currently implemented on this server, and rather you gain morale in a full group at the same rate you would solo on live. Which is significantly less.

In that github thread this conclusion was reached as to why morale was not changed:
Luth-RoR commented on Jul 11
Ok, this was discussed internally and atm it will be left as it is, as

a) "morale bombing" would be made easier atm with a way faster morale regen rate.
b) there is a general discussion going on what to do with morales (they morale gain system and morale abilities; some of them are far too lame/useless and some definitely OP).

I leave this report open until this is really solved, but please use the forum for any balance discussions on morales. Thanks

While I'm sure most can agree they are living with the current state of morale gain fine, and going back to the way it was might be a bit of a shock... It's having some serious implication on balance specifically regarding morale pump tactics.

On live these tactics were balanced around party morale gain which was iir 3-3.5x faster than solo gains? But their values are intact on this server with crippled morale gains meaning their value as a tactic has increased tremendously if not becoming totally OP especially when paired on certain classes or archetypes like tanks.

I know most won't like hearing this, but right now destro with morale pumps on BO/Chosen gain a very distinct advantage over order groups when the fight is allowed to progress past the 30-40 second mark as at that time defenses morales can be cycled by them (Bellow/ID) every minute.

I also think there is a alienation of a major part of this game due to classes without morale pumps almost never seeing m3 let alone m4 aside from extreme circumstances.


My proposal basically boils down to:

1) Revert morale gain mechanics back to the way they where on live

2) Across the board nerf of all morale gain tactics to account for the gimped morale gain rate

3) Some kind of middle ground or resolution found through discussion of this topic (morale gain)


While the statement about morales needing to be totally overhauled rings true with most of us, and the recent changes/discussions to morale roots seem like the beginning. There needs to be a discussion about morale gain first and foremost and address everything which is going to be directly impacted by that as the balance implications are overarching.
<Lords of the Locker Room> <Old School>

Ads
User avatar
Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Morale Gain

Post#2 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:21 pm

Moved to discussion.

I disfavour changing base morale gain rate for 2 reasons:

1) Will increase the prevalence of morale abilities in general, i.e. high cooldown high power effects. With 3.6x morale gain rate, M4 is reached simply by holding combat state for 1 minute and 40 seconds (36/s * 100).
2) We don't have any source for exactly how live morale gain works, so I doubt even the idea that party morale gain was simply x3.6.

However, it is certainly true, and noticeable, that morale pump tactics are utterly overpowered at the moment.

My own preference is for adjusting base morale gain rate depending on circumstances. Lots of players around? Higher morale regeneration. This would be a compromise designed to isolate small scale and scenarios from the effects of higher morale gain. This would leave every morale pump in the game in need of more complex handling, however.

User avatar
Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Morale Gain

Post#3 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:30 pm

Reduce all morale gain tactics, abilities 1/3-1/4

Going back to old rates moves us back to morale dumps which is the most stupid form of play
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

User avatar
Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Morale Gain

Post#4 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:23 pm

Sy but with dirty tricks tactic going on is like have like 60 free renown point to actually doing with 30 ->more heals and with other 30-> more damages this doesn't sound good.

Moral 4 is not a auto win button, first thing first it dosen't have cc immunity, secondary dosen't make you kill nothign, 3rd have 1 min CD, 4th it not reduces morales damages. The chosen/kobs meta is totally on kobs favour with a 100% update time tactic, this with out speak about how BW M2 nuke everything because he have also moral boost tactic but then even a m2 to make it worth,which make the talk of destru moral talk quite stupid.

M4<<<<< BW moral 2, this translate in a moral meta all towards order wb which they also have passive 60 renown points bonuses with 1 tactic for every party member.
Now in sc we had done some premades vs premades and the burst is so fast that the moral 4 and 2 x dok cleanse mean nothing because all those dot you cleanse and save with m4 can just be reapply istantly in few sec most of times; the focus is so much that you dosent even need heal debuff because it's ista kill something even under guard.

So actually like live moral meta or nerfed it would change nothing, really nothing.
Image

User avatar
Karast
Posts: 554

Re: Morale Gain

Post#5 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:39 pm

I think the issue with morale gain tactics is that they are limited in use depending on the career that has them. A morale gain tactic on a tank is much more useful than on a dps for a group setup due to the use of defensive morales. It is the reason many premade groups run them for early defensive morales, and there is not a solid counter at the moment since morale drains are rare and often oddly placed, or high tier morale abilities themselves making their use problematic.

For the moment I would agree with changing morale tactics to disable them for the meantime.

Personally I would like to see a very different morale system.

I would like to see morale gain tied to kills and deaths within a group. Kills increase morale for your group, deaths decrease it. In a situation where there are no kills or deaths then there is no morale gain.

User avatar
Bozzax
Posts: 2477

Re: Morale Gain

Post#6 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:45 pm

Sounds nice in theory but strong groups gets stronger and get more kills = more morale = more kills = more morale
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

User avatar
Razielhell
Former Staff
Posts: 1228
Contact:

Re: Morale Gain

Post#7 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:20 pm

Azarael wrote: My own preference is for adjusting base morale gain rate depending on circumstances. Lots of players around? Higher morale regeneration.
That! It makes more sense.
Image
Check Wiki for all available Public Quests!

User avatar
Toldavf
Posts: 1586

Re: Morale Gain

Post#8 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:37 pm

How about a morale bonus for scoring server kills in quick succession :P
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-

Image

Ads
User avatar
footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: Morale Gain

Post#9 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:38 pm

I STRONGLY urge that option 1 is taken. Morale gain rate is a MAJOR balancing factor. This is a Fundamental game mechanic's issue and should not be toyed around with. This area of the game should not have new inventive idea's thrown into it. This isn't a light issue what so ever. This is probably the most serious and impacting issue that has been raised on the balance forums yet.

Please do not play with this. Please restore as best as we know the old morale gain rates. The overall balance of the game is subject to having the correct morale gain rates. Having the Correct Morale gain rate is a extremely fundamental part of this game. Its up there with having the correct AP regen rate. It is fundamental.

User avatar
Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Morale Gain

Post#10 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:49 pm

You must demonstrate why old live morale gain rates are fundamental. You can't just state it 4 times and expect to be believed.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests