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[Implementation Feedback] A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

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Telen
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#101 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:32 am

Lack of snare is a 1v1 issue it wont change much in largescale. Theres more than enough snares in group and they already have a good gap closer. lack of mobility to target switch always seemed to make them have less group synergy. Compared to charge, pounce or just rdps switching they cant keep up after they pop on someone.
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Danielle
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#102 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:45 am

Morf wrote:I dont see how any of the suggested changes in this thread do anything other then make a class which is already strong against rdps even stronger, in a competitive situation a we/wh can put enough fear in the mind of rdps that they cant dps effectively, there group are always having to be def incase they are popped on and instantly knocked down and within the 3 seconds of a kd the rest of your team is on top of the rdps, this potential change screams (the dreaded) 1v1 experiences and as far as im aware 1v1 encounters should be ignored when it comes down to balancing.

The main argument/discussion here should be mobility not being better at catching rdps, its already hard enough for rdps to be effective in a competitive environment and some ppl want to make it even harder ?, a guaranteed snare with a range of 5 - 65ft will be near impossible for a rdps to kite a melee dps group, stealth is a much more effective tool then charge when trying to catch rdps fyi.

These potential changes will just shaft rdps even further down the line when it comes to competitive pvp.

If you want to address the mobility of we/wh then look at swift pursuit tactic for WE, mirror it to wh and allow it to cut the cooldown of fleet footed and sigil of sigmar in half.
It can be a rdps, a mdps running away when low on hp or a healer, the point is for the WE/WH to have a functional snare to allow the rest of their group to catch up when they are the ones trying to catch that target. From my experience of playing against ranged groups a slayer/choppa is much better than a WE/WH. A WE/WH will just be left stranded not doing any damage a lot of the time without charge. It's hard for them to engage on somebody, it's hard for them to disengage. Even when stealthing the amount of time it takes to get to somebody (assuming they don't read/predict your movement and go away) can mean death for one of your group members. I agree that the main argument is mobility, but mobility is required because no class is effective without being able to stay on target. The snare would also give WE/WH some much needed group utility. Mobility is also a relative term, decreasing the mobility on you enemies means your mobility has relatively increased. Finally all this would be achieved by fixing an ability that is kind of broken atm, which is one of the reasons I made my proposal around it.
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Azarael
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#103 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:59 am

3s CD (cycle rate 4s when considering 1s cast) with 20% side snare will be trialed in next patch.

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Azarael
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#104 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:45 pm

Reopened.

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Panzerkasper
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#105 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:52 am

I started playing a WE 2 or 3 weeks ago, (not because of the dagger change) and had a lot of time testing it. I must say i really like it. It has become an effectice way to counter the old WE/WH counters like (Self)punts and kite. It's complementing her skill set quite good, because most of the time you can actually get to your target very easy due to your stealth but then have problems to keep up with them.
It has made WE/WH life a bit better, although they still have some other issues.
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Spacecraft
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#106 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:19 pm

I like it too, I feel useful in a group chase. Good change helps catch people.
Like to see bullet switching in stealth and maybe a tactic for longer stealth. Because if we are pushed outside groups this assure we get a chance to open maybe 5 second more or so.

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porkstar
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#107 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:53 pm

It seems to basically guarantee even better solo performance/dominance for WE/WH. As a ranged, surviving a WE/WH attack isn't always as easy as the OP makes it sound (maybe the self punt easy button) Also, if we're talking about balancing abilities around group play, other classes in the party have plenty of ways to snare. This seems like a solo play buff to me but I don't play WE/WH I just try to survive them.

1. 25% chance to snare from side 100% chance from back

Edit: After thinking and reading more, Feinted positioning affecting the ranged snare is great. In fact, I remember long ago being very dismayed that FP did in fact not affect snare.
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Faef
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#108 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:37 pm

ive not found the change an effective gap closer once someone has got out of range (always have to use run and hope I have ap pot off cool down), but im mainly talking about gobbos here, they just have so many escape mechanisms. If I land PW if its off cool down its game over, whether thats a fair trade off im not sure, personally think the suggested feinted positioning change is the best idea, with the above suggested aoe snare that can be specced for the added group functionality.

As a side note for the devs, should absolution (or any ranged attack, including snapshot) be parryable, given its a ranged attack? Happens quite a lot. My thoughts are it should come under ranged and be opposed by dodge chance. Happy to open another proposal for this just didnt want to waste anyones time so was looking for an opinion.

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Miszczu5647
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#109 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:52 pm

Dodge is used against skill based on ballistic skill. It's impossible (afaik) to make skill based on str and defense against it based on dodge.
In ancient times WH had skills based on BS. And you really don't want to go back to those times.
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Faef
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Re: A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

Post#110 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:04 pm

Miszczu5647 wrote:Dodge is used against skill based on ballistic skill. It's impossible (afaik) to make skill based on str and defense against it based on dodge.
In ancient times WH had skills based on BS. And you really don't want to go back to those times.
If the tradeoff for parry is that the ranged are str based, then absolutely wouldnt want to change that. I guess Az et al can answer whether its possible to modify those calculations for dodge, substituting bal for str in the equasion when facing certain class or skill.

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