[PTS] Patch Notes 28/02/2025

[vitaka]

So, from putting id say 7-10+ hours in PTR trying different combos and such for Heal shaman. I think the patch is an absolute downgrade in terms of quality and enjoyability from a healing shaman standpoint. i will elaborate points below:

Survivability/Healing : with the new changes to willpower scaling/base healing, the healing im doing on PTR compared to live is a MASSIVE downgrade, my "do somethin useful" is ticking for about 200-300 less per tick, gorkll fix it doing a lot less, whazt behind you being nerfed 5% which is a fine change overall imo, losing shrug it off on self, the tactic for increased healing and more healing when below 40% is a masssssive nerf to overall surviability currently to try and counter play the 75% heal debuffs, and with how good the 8 set sov ability is, or well its warband value as you dont need to run it in smaller groups etc, my healing bonus on live is 184.2, you need to hit 200 healing bonus on PTR to equal the same healing you're getting on live. so you are going to need to be dropping a massive amounts of wounds/armor next patch just to feel the same in terms of healing as currently live,so From a survivability, you're losing shrug it off+tactic on self,losing how good your heals are unless you drop massive amounts of armor/wounds so you're a lot squishier when WH can ignore armor or WL mega armor debuffing you or slayers heal debuffing you etc any dps is going to pressure you to the point you have to spam heal yourself and no one else. Shaman is going to feel absolutely paper with no compensation next patch, and before anyone comments about the new "big heal" it heals for 800 on a 10second cooldown, its absolutely useless, i genuinely do not see the reasoning to demolish heal shaman this hard when there is already a healer shortage overall. there is 0 benefit/positives for healer shaman with these currently PTR notes. Fury of the green is also doing about 60% less healing on PTR compared to live which is an absolute insane nerf, With the new lower base healing/willpower scaling, if these notes go live, i think you will genuinely see a MASSIVE amount of shamans running a hybrid mastery build to get fotg and do somethin useful in full dps gear to do big damage, big fotg healing and in terms of healing, the difference between hots of full dps shaman and full sov heal shaman isnt massive anymore due to new scaling etc.

I think to fix these issues you need to revert the base heal changes and willpower changes to live versions. i understand wanting to make willpower more valueable but with how damage heavy the currently meta is, you have to survive as a healer from all the massive amounts of high damage AoE in warband play if not you're going to instantly flop over and then not be able to heal anyone cos you're spamming to keep yourself alive. atm on live, wb vs wb, if you're are pressuring the backline, you can just wipe healers with decent ease. Healers are already rare in MMO and these changes are going to make it massively worse imo.

I also beleive you need to revert the changes to Shrug it off+tactic for it, Currently its such a good tool to try keep a single person alive if you have the tactic slotted, it also have value in counterplay and adds a skill element when you get hit by that huge 75% heal debuff from WH or getting massive damage from WL/pet if you have to use it selfishly over using it on a choppa/tank/mara etc

Mechanic: The AM/Shaman mechanic getting changed due to the live version being fire and forget is a fair enough reason, but as a healer shaman POV, the new mechanic has not changed in the slightest in terms of fight and forget, you're constantly swapping targets using gorkkll fix it, ey quit bleedin, do somethin useles, fotg, AoE heal etc, so ive found you just float in the 1-3 stack range and VERY VERY rarely hit 5 stacks. in genuine warband play i dont think you will ever hit 5 stacks if you are healing effeciently and effectively meaning the new mechanic doesn't change gameplay in the slightest for 99% of the time. For dps shaman though who is constantly multi dotting and occasionally doing a cast, its very easy to hit 5 stacks and pump and dump the new mechanic.

The only way i can see this being fixed for healer shaman is if you make gorkll fix it be a HoT mechanic stack instead but then youd be hitting 5 stacks nonstop or make the tactic for ey quit bleedin hitting multiple targets give multiple stacks of HoT mechanic stack so you can actively take a tactic to pump and dump the new mechanic if you wanted.

Overall i think the new mechanic from a heal shaman PoV isnt very well thoughtout for genuine gameplay, and little to no interaction in warband play.

my overall thoughts for the PTR patch so far from a healing shaman point of view is that they're straight up terrible. there is next to 0 positives i could list in regards to changes that i think "oh yeah thats interesting and could be good" its just all a massive MASSIVE net nerf with 0 compensation. Healers are already rare, this patch will make it excessively worse due to how good it is for dps shamans/AMs.

Thank you for reading.

This is mostly nonsense.

When I ran the number and tried on PTS I came to the same conclusion as the other person: 180HP is about break-even with the current system. The fact that healers need to spec Willpower now since finally it scales somewhat is only logical. Healers should choose a trade-off between high healing throughput and survivability, and can't have the best of both worlds.

My RR82 AM has 800 Willpower, with full armour talis, Futile Strikes, and stills heals like crazy - without Willpower tactic or RR in Willpower. Yet with my other toons, I need to spec closer to 1,000 with the primary skill to be effective.

It's also not true that healers are the least played class. Check Maartenson's website. On Destro, over the last 30 days, healers were played 29.3%—the most played archetype. With Order, it was 29.2%, also the most played archetype.

[Parallels66]

So, from putting id say 7-10+ hours in PTR trying different combos and such for Heal shaman. I think the patch is an absolute downgrade in terms of quality and enjoyability from a healing shaman standpoint. i will elaborate points below:

Survivability/Healing : with the new changes to willpower scaling/base healing, the healing im doing on PTR compared to live is a MASSIVE downgrade, my "do somethin useful" is ticking for about 200-300 less per tick, gorkll fix it doing a lot less, whazt behind you being nerfed 5% which is a fine change overall imo, losing shrug it off on self, the tactic for increased healing and more healing when below 40% is a masssssive nerf to overall surviability currently to try and counter play the 75% heal debuffs, and with how good the 8 set sov ability is, or well its warband value as you dont need to run it in smaller groups etc, my healing bonus on live is 184.2, you need to hit 200 healing bonus on PTR to equal the same healing you're getting on live. so you are going to need to be dropping a massive amounts of wounds/armor next patch just to feel the same in terms of healing as currently live,so From a survivability, you're losing shrug it off+tactic on self,losing how good your heals are unless you drop massive amounts of armor/wounds so you're a lot squishier when WH can ignore armor or WL mega armor debuffing you or slayers heal debuffing you etc any dps is going to pressure you to the point you have to spam heal yourself and no one else. Shaman is going to feel absolutely paper with no compensation next patch, and before anyone comments about the new "big heal" it heals for 800 on a 10second cooldown, its absolutely useless, i genuinely do not see the reasoning to demolish heal shaman this hard when there is already a healer shortage overall. there is 0 benefit/positives for healer shaman with these currently PTR notes. Fury of the green is also doing about 60% less healing on PTR compared to live which is an absolute insane nerf, With the new lower base healing/willpower scaling, if these notes go live, i think you will genuinely see a MASSIVE amount of shamans running a hybrid mastery build to get fotg and do somethin useful in full dps gear to do big damage, big fotg healing and in terms of healing, the difference between hots of full dps shaman and full sov heal shaman isnt massive anymore due to new scaling etc.

I think to fix these issues you need to revert the base heal changes and willpower changes to live versions. i understand wanting to make willpower more valueable but with how damage heavy the currently meta is, you have to survive as a healer from all the massive amounts of high damage AoE in warband play if not you're going to instantly flop over and then not be able to heal anyone cos you're spamming to keep yourself alive. atm on live, wb vs wb, if you're are pressuring the backline, you can just wipe healers with decent ease. Healers are already rare in MMO and these changes are going to make it massively worse imo.

I also beleive you need to revert the changes to Shrug it off+tactic for it, Currently its such a good tool to try keep a single person alive if you have the tactic slotted, it also have value in counterplay and adds a skill element when you get hit by that huge 75% heal debuff from WH or getting massive damage from WL/pet if you have to use it selfishly over using it on a choppa/tank/mara etc

Mechanic: The AM/Shaman mechanic getting changed due to the live version being fire and forget is a fair enough reason, but as a healer shaman POV, the new mechanic has not changed in the slightest in terms of fight and forget, you're constantly swapping targets using gorkkll fix it, ey quit bleedin, do somethin useles, fotg, AoE heal etc, so ive found you just float in the 1-3 stack range and VERY VERY rarely hit 5 stacks. in genuine warband play i dont think you will ever hit 5 stacks if you are healing effeciently and effectively meaning the new mechanic doesn't change gameplay in the slightest for 99% of the time. For dps shaman though who is constantly multi dotting and occasionally doing a cast, its very easy to hit 5 stacks and pump and dump the new mechanic.

The only way i can see this being fixed for healer shaman is if you make gorkll fix it be a HoT mechanic stack instead but then youd be hitting 5 stacks nonstop or make the tactic for ey quit bleedin hitting multiple targets give multiple stacks of HoT mechanic stack so you can actively take a tactic to pump and dump the new mechanic if you wanted.

Overall i think the new mechanic from a heal shaman PoV isnt very well thoughtout for genuine gameplay, and little to no interaction in warband play.

my overall thoughts for the PTR patch so far from a healing shaman point of view is that they're straight up terrible. there is next to 0 positives i could list in regards to changes that i think "oh yeah thats interesting and could be good" its just all a massive MASSIVE net nerf with 0 compensation. Healers are already rare, this patch will make it excessively worse due to how good it is for dps shamans/AMs.

Thank you for reading.

This is mostly nonsense.

When I ran the number and tried on PTS I came to the same conclusion as the other person: 180HP is about break-even with the current system. The fact that healers need to spec Willpower now since finally it scales somewhat is only logical. Healers should choose a trade-off between high healing throughput and survivability, and can't have the best of both worlds.

My RR82 AM has 800 Willpower, with full armour talis, Futile Strikes, and stills heals like crazy - without Willpower tactic or RR in Willpower. Yet with my other toons, I need to spec closer to 1,000 with the primary skill to be effective.

It's also not true that healers are the least played class. Check Maartenson's website. On Destro, over the last 30 days, healers were played 29.3%—the most played archetype. With Order, it was 29.2%, also the most played archetype.

most "healer" archtype players arent playing them as healer. especially on shaman.

[JohnnyWayne]

most "healer" archtype players arent playing them as healer. especially on shaman.

That is not true, lol.

[Nekkma]

This is mostly nonsense.

When I ran the number and tried on PTS I came to the same conclusion as the other person: 180HP is about break-even with the current system. The fact that healers need to spec Willpower now since finally it scales somewhat is only logical. Healers should choose a trade-off between high healing throughput and survivability, and can't have the best of both worlds.

My RR82 AM has 800 Willpower, with full armour talis, Futile Strikes, and stills heals like crazy - without Willpower tactic or RR in Willpower. Yet with my other toons, I need to spec closer to 1,000 with the primary skill to be effective.

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

The effect of this is basically to force the use of Discipline-tactic to maintain current healing numbers. Full sov + Discipline with no additional willpower investment gets me to 180 healing bonus on AM. Depending on the general qualities of tactics this will affect classes differently.

Additionally, if the idea is that willpower should matter the willpower buffs should be reviewed. IB/BG having the ability to buff willpower just under 500 is not comparable to other mainstat buffs.

[Bozzax]

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

100% spot on

[Endari]

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

They do need the same support as dps though? Just like dps you need proper positioning, just like dps you need guard when focused, just like dps you have to detaunt. dps do make a trade-off between dps and survivability, from gear and talies to mastery to rr spec, what are you even talking about? Hell dps have to further reduce their main stat in order to get armor bypass and any other little survivability tools.

For way too long healers on RoR could ignore their main stat and go full deftard and still pump out good heals, only the regen bubble WE had something similar for dps with witchbrew not scaling with str and it was nerfed into the ground(took way too long as well).

[Sinisterror]

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

They do need the same support as dps though? Just like dps you need proper positioning, just like dps you need guard when focused, just like dps you have to detaunt. dps do make a trade-off between dps and survivability, from gear and talies to mastery to rr spec, what are you even talking about? Hell dps have to further reduce their main stat in order to get armor bypass and any other little survivability tools.

For way too long healers on RoR could ignore their main stat and go full deftard and still pump out good heals, only the regen bubble WE had something similar for dps with witchbrew not scaling with str and it was nerfed into the ground(took way too long as well).

They dont need same support as dps does, thats why tanks always guard melee dps, if they needed same amount of support guard could be on anyone. Armor Bypass is not survivabilty tool. Comparing Regen We to Healer makes no sense. Now that Witchbrew scales with Str it should also Crit but it doesnt, like leonine frenzy. One of the very many nerfs to overall damage RoR has made vs AoR.

Healers and Tanks are support classes, supporting dps to get kills which is kind of the point. RoR has removed shoulder crit talisman, Items with 3-5% Crit have been changed to 1-2%. Boost V-VI ( 9-crit/12-18% Crit dmg) was accessible to all classes in Aor in rr38 influence items, Tier 4 epic wpn quests, Pve etc.

Items with 3-5% Increased+Reduced Armour pene/ReducedCritical hit have been nerfed to 1-2% Like Crit has been. In RoR Renown Crit reduction gives 24% less Crits with 45rr points. Same amount of rr points gives you 14% Crit. 7% Crit Chest+8% 2h Crit staffs,4-5% on 1h's on Lairs + Bastion Stair has been removed. Crit is the only things that is not set in stone and normal crit with dmg/heal is 35-55% Increase without modifiers. So crit in aor = extremely important, thats why Shadow Warrior gave 15% all crit to his group mates and Kotbs got 10% to make it 25% Critical rate increase for the party. Also 100% + Dmg increase morale 2 on SW,Engi and Sqherder. All these three classes got access to Boost V or VI + Sove 7pc Boost VII and they stacked to 19% Crit and 32-38% Critical dmg increase.

Those examples show how aor and ror value crit very differently. In Aor the moment you used Burn Away Lies(or any skill) with Active Vindication Tactic buff + Flanking it always had 65% Dmg increase so "True Timestamping". But also target defensive buffs that were active while using BaL are also taken into account. This makes Cleanse more important and i actually liked that way of handling it more.

Super strong and needed CC/Tactics/Unique Abilities like Crippling Strikes, Runefang, Frenzied Mayhem,Piercing Bite(Affected every ability) Run Away! and many more are not in RoR or are heavily Nerfed versions of them. 50% Aoe HD's taken away, Morale dmg cap added. RoR almost has negated Critical Dmg from existence but notice that there are very many abilities/tactics giving you 25-90% Critical dmg. 50-180% In the early days : D And there are not so many Armour Penetration Skills/Tactics originally. There were things like Black orc double Ws buff 240 that should be returned! and Kotbs/Bg/Wl had 25% Armour Ignore ability but they were all single target.

Keep in mind that RoR added Armour Pene Tactic/Skill to Wl/Wh/We/Sw/Sh/Wp/Dok. All offensive Dps Sove bonuses were the same for melee/range/dps healers. That is the only way to have copy paste set bonuses because they made Sense. Main stat,Wounds,Crit,180melee/range/magic/heal power proc/ 10% Crit/20% Crit dmg as 7pc bonus, 8pc bonuses were personalized.

Last but not least why Healers feel too powerful is because of the GCD change. 8 skills in 10+sec vs 6 skills now in RoR. This obviously hits instant Skills hardest +Heal Dok/Wp because it means 1-2 less grp heals in 10sec. Obviously this also buffs everything that has cast times over 1.5s which is the GCD. This change is what makes Regen more powerful as well. Also 184hp chest and 80hp pocket should be removed, give us 7% Crit chests instead!

[georgehabadasher]

This is mostly nonsense.

When I ran the number and tried on PTS I came to the same conclusion as the other person: 180HP is about break-even with the current system. The fact that healers need to spec Willpower now since finally it scales somewhat is only logical. Healers should choose a trade-off between high healing throughput and survivability, and can't have the best of both worlds.

My RR82 AM has 800 Willpower, with full armour talis, Futile Strikes, and stills heals like crazy - without Willpower tactic or RR in Willpower. Yet with my other toons, I need to spec closer to 1,000 with the primary skill to be effective.

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

The effect of this is basically to force the use of Discipline-tactic to maintain current healing numbers. Full sov + Discipline with no additional willpower investment gets me to 180 healing bonus on AM. Depending on the general qualities of tactics this will affect classes differently.

Additionally, if the idea is that willpower should matter the willpower buffs should be reviewed. IB/BG having the ability to buff willpower just under 500 is not comparable to other mainstat buffs.

Great post, succinctly and accurately describes why this change to willpower/healing bonus is unnecessary and poorly thought out.

[Alubert]

This is mostly nonsense.

When I ran the number and tried on PTS I came to the same conclusion as the other person: 180HP is about break-even with the current system. The fact that healers need to spec Willpower now since finally it scales somewhat is only logical. Healers should choose a trade-off between high healing throughput and survivability, and can't have the best of both worlds.

My RR82 AM has 800 Willpower, with full armour talis, Futile Strikes, and stills heals like crazy - without Willpower tactic or RR in Willpower. Yet with my other toons, I need to spec closer to 1,000 with the primary skill to be effective.

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

The effect of this is basically to force the use of Discipline-tactic to maintain current healing numbers. Full sov + Discipline with no additional willpower investment gets me to 180 healing bonus on AM. Depending on the general qualities of tactics this will affect classes differently.

Additionally, if the idea is that willpower should matter the willpower buffs should be reviewed. IB/BG having the ability to buff willpower just under 500 is not comparable to other mainstat buffs.

Me thinks these are very good and healthy changes.
I don't know why everyone is so evasive about using Discipline. I have all healers in the game and everyone uses discipline (even now before the announced changes).
Look at best healer in the game Halta (full healing bonus).

IB/BG willpower buff.
I own IB and BG. DP and OF have 50 feet of range. Good luck throwing that buff at a healer.

[Nekkma]

This is mostly nonsense.

When I ran the number and tried on PTS I came to the same conclusion as the other person: 180HP is about break-even with the current system. The fact that healers need to spec Willpower now since finally it scales somewhat is only logical. Healers should choose a trade-off between high healing throughput and survivability, and can't have the best of both worlds.

My RR82 AM has 800 Willpower, with full armour talis, Futile Strikes, and stills heals like crazy - without Willpower tactic or RR in Willpower. Yet with my other toons, I need to spec closer to 1,000 with the primary skill to be effective.

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

The effect of this is basically to force the use of Discipline-tactic to maintain current healing numbers. Full sov + Discipline with no additional willpower investment gets me to 180 healing bonus on AM. Depending on the general qualities of tactics this will affect classes differently.

Additionally, if the idea is that willpower should matter the willpower buffs should be reviewed. IB/BG having the ability to buff willpower just under 500 is not comparable to other mainstat buffs.

Me thinks these are very good and healthy changes.
I don't know why everyone is so evasive about using Discipline. I have all healers in the game and everyone uses discipline (even now before the announced changes).
Look at best healer in the game Halta (full healing bonus).

IB/BG willpower buff.
I own IB and BG. DP and OF have 50 feet of range. Good luck throwing that buff at a healer.

Whether the change is good or not was not my point (even though I dislike most of the proposed changes in this patch concerning healers).

Should willpower scaling be changed? Perhaps, there are pros and cons imo to change the scaling. Should willpower scaling be changed because dps classes need to soft cap main stat to do damage? Absolutely not. The logic regardning dps is not the same as for healers.