Recent Topics

Ads

Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Talk about the development of the emulator and related services.
Check out new and upcoming features to be implemented onto the server.
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
User avatar
Oldschool
Posts: 49

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#141 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:26 pm

....tbh i dont get all this discussion we have since years with the same problems (and too many skill changes from DEVs in my opinion)....easy solution on all this for all and everybody and all times:

Make real Mirror classes.

Just switch the skills from Order to Destro or Destro to Order or set up some new for all and we talk about same business and we dont have to break our nerves with unballancing.

Ads
Zadorck
Posts: 35

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#142 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:45 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:33 pm
Sprite089 wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:57 pm Why not try this tactic with adjusted values? Could have nerfed the Values to like 10%..
The SW changes werent nerfed this fast, why is that? I agree 25% was too much, but why delete it completly?
First off, the quick reversion is because it was a mistake and was never actually intended to go out. This stuff happens sometimes. You should probably read the first post in the topic.

Because the way this tactic worked is problematic. "On taking crit damage" essentially means they have maximum range on the ability to reduce crit, passively, on targets that have high enough levels of crit to get through the tanks defensive capability. Also because it's on taking damage, it's not possible to add an internal cooldown on the proc, which means a Chosen getting crit can have this proc as many times as they get hit, potentially allowing them to debuff dozens of players provided they're able to stay alive (something a healed def-tank is pretty good at).

Changing it to "when I crit", up to 5 people get crit reduction at a pretty generous amount. This vastly reduces the effect of the tactic to be more in line with literally everything else. It makes it group oriented, which we find to be a plus. It makes it active, in that you need to be doing something rather than nothing. And you need to spec for it to make it more reliable, which rewards investing into crit as a primary stat (if that's your jam). If you don't invest into crit, it still works fine, albeit at a much lower rate which is intended to be low if you're playing a more defensive oriented spec. Will you eventually crit? Yes. Will it be often enough to keep this tactic always active? No. If anything is adjusted, it will likely be the duration of the proc, not the implementation, so we could see an appropriate uptime on it.
In my opinion, the changes are right and balanced, but 5 seconds looks really short, depending on crit while being a tank, i think 10 sec would be legit

Thanks for your work !

zageen
Posts: 94

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#143 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:55 pm

@secrets

Ok so i resume, the chosen oppression will now need a shield. Remember that the real armor buff is around 300 armor, cause it doesn't stack with potion.

If both need shield
So :
Knight gain 50% dmg reduce FROM ALL SOURCES for 10 sec every 30 sec, no requirement
Chosen gain 15% , for 10 sec every every 20 sec, and 300 armor ( 7% physical réduction), so 22% against physical aggressor, for 20 sec every 20 sec, require a PARRY/BLOCK+TARGETED ATTACK

Let's say they will take 3000 (1500 physical and 1500 other) dmg in 30 sec, equally balanced over time like constant aoe) and that the chosen has proc/block parry with 100% uptime AND a target to attack:

the knight will take only 2500 dmg (1000 dmg/10 sec , 50% reduction)

The chosen will proc 2 time (best scenario, ) oppression and gain 15% dmg reduction over 20 sec on elemental dmg:
So 15% of 1000 elemental dmg over 20 sec: 150 dmg reduction of elemental dmg:

The armor buff( 7%)+ is 30 sec duration, 100% uptime, and 15% over 20 sec , so 22% over 1000 dmg and 7% over 500 dmg :
220 +35

150+ 255 dmg = 405 dmg in total over 30 sec

mixed dmg : 405 vs 500

if we do the calculus with 3000 elem dmg over 30 sec : 300 VS 500 DMG reduced

if we do the calculus with 3000 physical dmg over 30 sec: 510 vs 500 dmg reduced

I don't take in action : TH, basic armor ( end game chosen SHIELD SPECCED with def sov have with potion around 5 k 5 armor, 125% reduction, so same for kotbs), crit rate and block/parry/dodge dirupt.

OK so now that i've calculated the dmg we can see that the chosen is way behind:
by 25 % dmg reduction in mixed dmg
by 40 % in elemental dmg reduction
and lead by 2% in physical dmg reduction (KEK)

average 21% less effective than vigilance

So , why do you nerf oppresion that is 20% less effective and need 2 CONDITION ( to parry/block before AND to have a target to hit) by just putting a condition that made a fun offtank build in rvr lake ( i won't lie that ppl that take oppression in smallscale/sc are just bad people) at least "viable", if not just a bit trolly cause the spell is utter garbage atm.

(and i did the calculus on a good timing for the chosen cause it can proc 2 time in 30 sec where the kotbs can only proc 1, imagine on 20 (1 proc each) sec or 40 sec(2 proc each), this spell is even more garbage that you imagine)

So since i didn't bother myself to do this kind of calculus for nothing i propose 2 way of balancing:
1: do not touch it, i like the fact that Kotbs is a super support class and the chosen is designed to be better at dealing dmg, but have tanky but less usefull option to 2 H, even if it's bad.
2: Increase the duration of the 15% dmg reduce to 20 sec, (make it still less usefull than kotbs against non phys dmg, but better for phys dmg , and in a way that make the shatter enchant stronger against chosen)
3: Remove the armor buff and put the flat dmg reduction at 20% for 20 (stonger than kotbs, but still need proc + target and easier to counter with shatter enchant)


PS: Because iT dOeS DAmAgE (on a deftard shield spec?)

PS2: sorry for the english mistakes
Last edited by zageen on Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Twelves inches unbuffed

Zag 40/83 chosen
Zagm 40/6X mara

Legion of Boom

Zageen 40/7X SM
Diabolomenthe 40/6X KOTBS

User avatar
zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#144 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:09 pm

Vigilance change will revert but not Oppression? Interesting choice; especially seeing as Chosen's ability is the inferior of the two.

Mayhaps then buff the ability a bit? Armor increase on abilities is never as useful as the tooltip suggests (due to pots).
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

User avatar
Fenris78
Posts: 787

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#145 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:45 pm

Spoiler:
zageen wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:55 pm @secrets

Ok so i resume, the chosen oppression will now need a shield. Remember that the real armor buff is around 300 armor, cause it doesn't stack with potion.

So :
Knight gain 50% dmg reduce FROM ALL SOURCES for 10 sec every 30 sec, no requirement
Chosen gain 15% , for 10 sec every every 20 sec, and 300 armor ( 7% physical réduction), so 22% against physical aggressor, for 20 sec every 20 sec, require a PARRY/BLOCK+TARGETED ATTACK

Let's say they will take 3000 (1500 physical and 1500 other) dmg in 30 sec, equally balanced over time like constant aoe) and that the chosen has proc/block parry with 100% uptime AND a target to attack:

the knight will take only 2500 dmg (1000 dmg/10 sec , 50% reduction)

The chosen will proc 2 time (best scenario, ) oppression and gain 15% dmg reduction over 20 sec on elemental dmg:
So 15% of 1000 elemental dmg over 20 sec: 150 dmg reduction of elemental dmg:

The armor buff( 7%)+ is 30 sec duration, 100% uptime, and 15% over 20 sec , so 22% over 1000 dmg and 7% over 500 dmg :
220 +35

150+ 255 dmg = 405 dmg in total over 30 sec

mixed dmg : 405 vs 500

if we do the calculus with 3000 elem dmg over 30 sec : 300 VS 500 DMG reduced

if we do the calculus with 3000 physical dmg over 30 sec: 510 vs 500 dmg reduced

I don't take in action : TH, basic armor ( end game chosen SHIELD SPECCED with def sov have with potion around 5 k 5 armor, 125% reduction, so same for kotbs), crit rate and block/parry/dodge dirupt.

OK so now that i've calculated the dmg we can see that the chosen is way behind:
by 25 % dmg reduction in mixed dmg
by 40 % in elemental dmg reduction
and lead by 2% in physical dmg reduction (KEK)

average 21% less effective than vigilance

So , why do you nerf oppresion that is 20% less effective and need 2 CONDITION ( to parry/block before AND to have a target to hit) by just putting a condition that made a fun offtank build in rvr lake ( i won't lie that ppl that take oppression in smallscale/sc are just bad people) at least "viable", if not just a bit trolly cause the spell is utter garbage atm.

(and i did the calculus on a good timing for the chosen cause it can proc 2 time in 30 sec where the kotbs can only proc 1, imagine on 20 (1 proc each) sec or 40 sec(2 proc each), this spell is even more garbage that you imagine)

So since i didn't bother myself to do this kind of calculus for nothing i propose 2 way of balancing:
1: do not touch it, i like the fact that Kotbs is a super support class and the chosen is designed to be better at dealing dmg, but have tanky but less usefull option to 2 H, even if it's bad.
2: Increase the duration of the 15% dmg reduce to 20 sec, (make it still less usefull than kotbs against non phys dmg, but better for phys dmg , and in a way that make the shatter enchant stronger against chosen)
3: Remove the armor buff and put the flat dmg reduction at 20% for 20 (stonger than kotbs, but still need proc + target and easier to counter with shatter enchant)


PS: Because iT dOeS DAmAgE (on a deftard shield spec?)

PS2: sorry for the english mistakes
You seem to forget that pretty much every defensive options for chosen are either baseline and/or skill without requirements :
1. +25% parry - baseline skill without gear requirement
2. +25% disrupt - 13 pts skill without requirement
3. 10% crit reduction - baseline tactic
4. 15% dmg reduction without needing shield, working with guard parry/block so pretty much usable everytime. Was not tied to shield until now.
5. No block increaser

While the KotBS need a shield for EVERY defensive bonus, most being tactics, for less bonuses :
1. +15% parry - mastery tactic, tied to shield
2. +15% disrupt - baseline tactic, tied to shield
3. +10% block, baseline skill tied to shield AND parry increase
4. 50% intake dmg reduction without needing shield until now, but 25% output dmg reduction.
3. No crit reducer

Considering chosen to be more polyvalent in this regard (being able to tank while being 2H and dealing superior base damage), chosen can also slot 10% crit reduction tactic to free up to 20 renown points, for other useful abilities like hardy concession (-15% dmg taken) or offensive ones.

While KotBS CANNOT be tanky in 2H, saving the ONLY ONE defensive skill that until now required no shield ; and you think about removing that option is a good idea ?

Even with shield, KotBS got like 10-35% less parry, 10% more chance to be crit (no option available for KotBS), disrupt abilities are around equal (15% perma tactic vs Chosen 25% with 33% uptime and harder to spec but doesnt need tactic slot), and the KotBS block increaser that cant be used while funneling (it requires a close target).

So yes, KotBS CAN be a bit more tanky for 10s, but need to spec into mandatory 13pts ability, AND sacrifice everything to be SnB or say goodbye to pretty much every other defensive options.
Chosen cannot be up to such tankiness, BUT is more tnaky the rest of the time while not having to worry about his stuff at all, being far more polyvalent than the KotBS.

zageen
Posts: 94

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#146 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:32 pm

Fenris78 wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:45 pm
Spoiler:
zageen wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:55 pm @secrets

Ok so i resume, the chosen oppression will now need a shield. Remember that the real armor buff is around 300 armor, cause it doesn't stack with potion.

So :
Knight gain 50% dmg reduce FROM ALL SOURCES for 10 sec every 30 sec, no requirement
Chosen gain 15% , for 10 sec every every 20 sec, and 300 armor ( 7% physical réduction), so 22% against physical aggressor, for 20 sec every 20 sec, require a PARRY/BLOCK+TARGETED ATTACK

Let's say they will take 3000 (1500 physical and 1500 other) dmg in 30 sec, equally balanced over time like constant aoe) and that the chosen has proc/block parry with 100% uptime AND a target to attack:

the knight will take only 2500 dmg (1000 dmg/10 sec , 50% reduction)

The chosen will proc 2 time (best scenario, ) oppression and gain 15% dmg reduction over 20 sec on elemental dmg:
So 15% of 1000 elemental dmg over 20 sec: 150 dmg reduction of elemental dmg:

The armor buff( 7%)+ is 30 sec duration, 100% uptime, and 15% over 20 sec , so 22% over 1000 dmg and 7% over 500 dmg :
220 +35

150+ 255 dmg = 405 dmg in total over 30 sec

mixed dmg : 405 vs 500

if we do the calculus with 3000 elem dmg over 30 sec : 300 VS 500 DMG reduced

if we do the calculus with 3000 physical dmg over 30 sec: 510 vs 500 dmg reduced

I don't take in action : TH, basic armor ( end game chosen SHIELD SPECCED with def sov have with potion around 5 k 5 armor, 125% reduction, so same for kotbs), crit rate and block/parry/dodge dirupt.

OK so now that i've calculated the dmg we can see that the chosen is way behind:
by 25 % dmg reduction in mixed dmg
by 40 % in elemental dmg reduction
and lead by 2% in physical dmg reduction (KEK)

average 21% less effective than vigilance

So , why do you nerf oppresion that is 20% less effective and need 2 CONDITION ( to parry/block before AND to have a target to hit) by just putting a condition that made a fun offtank build in rvr lake ( i won't lie that ppl that take oppression in smallscale/sc are just bad people) at least "viable", if not just a bit trolly cause the spell is utter garbage atm.

(and i did the calculus on a good timing for the chosen cause it can proc 2 time in 30 sec where the kotbs can only proc 1, imagine on 20 (1 proc each) sec or 40 sec(2 proc each), this spell is even more garbage that you imagine)

So since i didn't bother myself to do this kind of calculus for nothing i propose 2 way of balancing:
1: do not touch it, i like the fact that Kotbs is a super support class and the chosen is designed to be better at dealing dmg, but have tanky but less usefull option to 2 H, even if it's bad.
2: Increase the duration of the 15% dmg reduce to 20 sec, (make it still less usefull than kotbs against non phys dmg, but better for phys dmg , and in a way that make the shatter enchant stronger against chosen)
3: Remove the armor buff and put the flat dmg reduction at 20% for 20 (stonger than kotbs, but still need proc + target and easier to counter with shatter enchant)


PS: Because iT dOeS DAmAgE (on a deftard shield spec?)

PS2: sorry for the english mistakes
You seem to forget that pretty much every defensive options for chosen are either baseline and/or skill without requirements :
1. +25% parry - baseline skill without gear requirement
2. +25% disrupt - 13 pts skill without requirement
3. 10% crit reduction - baseline tactic
4. 15% dmg reduction without needing shield, working with guard parry/block so pretty much usable everytime. Was not tied to shield until now.
5. No block increaser

While the KotBS need a shield for EVERY defensive bonus, most being tactics, for less bonuses :
1. +15% parry - mastery tactic, tied to shield
2. +15% disrupt - baseline tactic, tied to shield
3. +10% block, baseline skill tied to shield AND parry increase
4. 50% intake dmg reduction without needing shield until now, but 25% output dmg reduction.
3. No crit reducer

Considering chosen to be more polyvalent in this regard (being able to tank while being 2H and dealing superior base damage), chosen can also slot 10% crit reduction tactic to free up to 20 renown points, for other useful abilities like hardy concession (-15% dmg taken) or offensive ones.

While KotBS CANNOT be tanky in 2H, saving the ONLY ONE defensive skill that until now required no shield ; and you think about removing that option is a good idea ?

Even with shield, KotBS got like 10-35% less parry, 10% more chance to be crit (no option available for KotBS), disrupt abilities are around equal (15% perma tactic vs Chosen 25% with 33% uptime and harder to spec but doesnt need tactic slot), and the KotBS block increaser that cant be used while funneling (it requires a close target).

So yes, KotBS CAN be a bit more tanky for 10s, but need to spec into mandatory 13pts ability, AND sacrifice everything to be SnB or say goodbye to pretty much every other defensive options.
Chosen cannot be up to such tankiness, BUT is more tnaky the rest of the time while not having to worry about his stuff at all, being far more polyvalent than the KotBS.
We speak about Big scale fight ,where the destro are currently struggeling, so SnB is the way to go, but remember that you have too: 15% healing increase (not hard to reach), if you want to spec more offensively 2 H speaking : mass 10% ALL DEF debuff, OUTGOING 25% heal debuff aura, that stack with ANY heal debuff, usefull M3,M4, not shitty absorb or small dmg boost, AOE slow ( you can literaly slow a whole party forever). You know why, cause you are a support! And i can add to that the multiples way of increasing party critrate.

And you try to just **** with the chosen to nerf his dmg, the only strong point cause he is a very bad support outside of auras.

Too bad, i'm a kotbs player too and i know how broken it is compared to chosen, Kotbs is mendatory because it is broken, chosen is not
Twelves inches unbuffed

Zag 40/83 chosen
Zagm 40/6X mara

Legion of Boom

Zageen 40/7X SM
Diabolomenthe 40/6X KOTBS

User avatar
Specialpatrol
Posts: 292

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#147 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:00 pm

zageen wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:32 pm
Fenris78 wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:45 pm
Spoiler:
zageen wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:55 pm @secrets

Ok so i resume, the chosen oppression will now need a shield. Remember that the real armor buff is around 300 armor, cause it doesn't stack with potion.

So :
Knight gain 50% dmg reduce FROM ALL SOURCES for 10 sec every 30 sec, no requirement
Chosen gain 15% , for 10 sec every every 20 sec, and 300 armor ( 7% physical réduction), so 22% against physical aggressor, for 20 sec every 20 sec, require a PARRY/BLOCK+TARGETED ATTACK

Let's say they will take 3000 (1500 physical and 1500 other) dmg in 30 sec, equally balanced over time like constant aoe) and that the chosen has proc/block parry with 100% uptime AND a target to attack:

the knight will take only 2500 dmg (1000 dmg/10 sec , 50% reduction)

The chosen will proc 2 time (best scenario, ) oppression and gain 15% dmg reduction over 20 sec on elemental dmg:
So 15% of 1000 elemental dmg over 20 sec: 150 dmg reduction of elemental dmg:

The armor buff( 7%)+ is 30 sec duration, 100% uptime, and 15% over 20 sec , so 22% over 1000 dmg and 7% over 500 dmg :
220 +35

150+ 255 dmg = 405 dmg in total over 30 sec

mixed dmg : 405 vs 500

if we do the calculus with 3000 elem dmg over 30 sec : 300 VS 500 DMG reduced

if we do the calculus with 3000 physical dmg over 30 sec: 510 vs 500 dmg reduced

I don't take in action : TH, basic armor ( end game chosen SHIELD SPECCED with def sov have with potion around 5 k 5 armor, 125% reduction, so same for kotbs), crit rate and block/parry/dodge dirupt.

OK so now that i've calculated the dmg we can see that the chosen is way behind:
by 25 % dmg reduction in mixed dmg
by 40 % in elemental dmg reduction
and lead by 2% in physical dmg reduction (KEK)

average 21% less effective than vigilance

So , why do you nerf oppresion that is 20% less effective and need 2 CONDITION ( to parry/block before AND to have a target to hit) by just putting a condition that made a fun offtank build in rvr lake ( i won't lie that ppl that take oppression in smallscale/sc are just bad people) at least "viable", if not just a bit trolly cause the spell is utter garbage atm.

(and i did the calculus on a good timing for the chosen cause it can proc 2 time in 30 sec where the kotbs can only proc 1, imagine on 20 (1 proc each) sec or 40 sec(2 proc each), this spell is even more garbage that you imagine)

So since i didn't bother myself to do this kind of calculus for nothing i propose 2 way of balancing:
1: do not touch it, i like the fact that Kotbs is a super support class and the chosen is designed to be better at dealing dmg, but have tanky but less usefull option to 2 H, even if it's bad.
2: Increase the duration of the 15% dmg reduce to 20 sec, (make it still less usefull than kotbs against non phys dmg, but better for phys dmg , and in a way that make the shatter enchant stronger against chosen)
3: Remove the armor buff and put the flat dmg reduction at 20% for 20 (stonger than kotbs, but still need proc + target and easier to counter with shatter enchant)


PS: Because iT dOeS DAmAgE (on a deftard shield spec?)

PS2: sorry for the english mistakes
You seem to forget that pretty much every defensive options for chosen are either baseline and/or skill without requirements :
1. +25% parry - baseline skill without gear requirement
2. +25% disrupt - 13 pts skill without requirement
3. 10% crit reduction - baseline tactic
4. 15% dmg reduction without needing shield, working with guard parry/block so pretty much usable everytime. Was not tied to shield until now.
5. No block increaser

While the KotBS need a shield for EVERY defensive bonus, most being tactics, for less bonuses :
1. +15% parry - mastery tactic, tied to shield
2. +15% disrupt - baseline tactic, tied to shield
3. +10% block, baseline skill tied to shield AND parry increase
4. 50% intake dmg reduction without needing shield until now, but 25% output dmg reduction.
3. No crit reducer

Considering chosen to be more polyvalent in this regard (being able to tank while being 2H and dealing superior base damage), chosen can also slot 10% crit reduction tactic to free up to 20 renown points, for other useful abilities like hardy concession (-15% dmg taken) or offensive ones.

While KotBS CANNOT be tanky in 2H, saving the ONLY ONE defensive skill that until now required no shield ; and you think about removing that option is a good idea ?

Even with shield, KotBS got like 10-35% less parry, 10% more chance to be crit (no option available for KotBS), disrupt abilities are around equal (15% perma tactic vs Chosen 25% with 33% uptime and harder to spec but doesnt need tactic slot), and the KotBS block increaser that cant be used while funneling (it requires a close target).

So yes, KotBS CAN be a bit more tanky for 10s, but need to spec into mandatory 13pts ability, AND sacrifice everything to be SnB or say goodbye to pretty much every other defensive options.
Chosen cannot be up to such tankiness, BUT is more tnaky the rest of the time while not having to worry about his stuff at all, being far more polyvalent than the KotBS.
We speak about Big scale fight ,where the destro are currently struggeling, so SnB is the way to go, but remember that you have too: 15% healing increase (not hard to reach), if you want to spec more offensively 2 H speaking : mass 10% ALL DEF debuff, OUTGOING 25% heal debuff aura, that stack with ANY heal debuff, usefull M3,M4, not shitty absorb or small dmg boost, AOE slow ( you can literaly slow a whole party forever). You know why, cause you are a support! And i can add to that the multiples way of increasing party critrate.

And you try to just **** with the chosen to nerf his dmg, the only strong point cause he is a very bad support outside of auras.

Too bad, i'm a kotbs player too and i know how broken it is compared to chosen, Kotbs is mendatory because it is broken, chosen is not
Just want to add some remarks to this.

- “Staggering Impact” can be blocked and parried, and often are against more organized groups. It also requires full investment into the offensive tree, which of course limits your more defensive options.

- “Now’s Our Chance!” debuffs outgoing healing (as you also mention), meaning you literally have to be on top of enemy healers. So it’s extremely situational, at best. And it only stacks with incoming heal debuffs - not all heal debuffs. WH Bullets of Confession and IB Punishing Knock will override it, for example.

So yeah, decent abilities. But situational, and not nearly as broken as you claim them to be.
Last edited by Specialpatrol on Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
APONYMOUS l WP l R40 l RR8X
BRAKEDOWN l KOTBS l R40 l RR8X
BOILING l BW l R40 l RR8X
PUFFED l SLY l R40 l RR8X
RHYTHM l AM l R40 l RR8X
EEWULL l DOK l R3X l RR4X

zageen
Posts: 94

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#148 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:14 pm

Every single spell that need to hit a target and buff, doesn't buff if negated. It affect, the wound debuff, the parry buff, oppression. Chosen without high strengthto get some parry strike through or good positioning is doomed.
Twelves inches unbuffed

Zag 40/83 chosen
Zagm 40/6X mara

Legion of Boom

Zageen 40/7X SM
Diabolomenthe 40/6X KOTBS

Ads
User avatar
Oglaf
Suspended
Posts: 279

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#149 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:35 pm

zulnam wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:09 pm Vigilance change will revert but not Oppression? Interesting choice; especially seeing as Chosen's ability is the inferior of the two.

Mayhaps then buff the ability a bit? Armor increase on abilities is never as useful as the tooltip suggests (due to pots).
Honestly, if they do this how could it be anything but that meme-y "Order bias" but for real this time?

Just change Oppression's fluff text to not mention "shield slam" and revert both of them to not requiring shield.

It is not rocket surgery. >_>

User avatar
Dondabon
Posts: 27

Re: Developer Musings: An Explanation of Recent Occurances & How We'll Fix Them

Post#150 » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:55 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:33 pm
Sprite089 wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:57 pm Why not try this tactic with adjusted values? Could have nerfed the Values to like 10%..
The SW changes werent nerfed this fast, why is that? I agree 25% was too much, but why delete it completly?
First off, the quick reversion is because it was a mistake and was never actually intended to go out. This stuff happens sometimes. You should probably read the first post in the topic.

Because the way this tactic worked is problematic. "On taking crit damage" essentially means they have maximum range on the ability to reduce crit, passively, on targets that have high enough levels of crit to get through the tanks defensive capability. Also because it's on taking damage, it's not possible to add an internal cooldown on the proc, which means a Chosen getting crit can have this proc as many times as they get hit, potentially allowing them to debuff dozens of players provided they're able to stay alive (something a healed def-tank is pretty good at).

Changing it to "when I crit", up to 5 people get crit reduction at a pretty generous amount. This vastly reduces the effect of the tactic to be more in line with literally everything else. It makes it group oriented, which we find to be a plus. It makes it active, in that you need to be doing something rather than nothing. And you need to spec for it to make it more reliable, which rewards investing into crit as a primary stat (if that's your jam). If you don't invest into crit, it still works fine, albeit at a much lower rate which is intended to be low if you're playing a more defensive oriented spec. Will you eventually crit? Yes. Will it be often enough to keep this tactic always active? No. If anything is adjusted, it will likely be the duration of the proc, not the implementation, so we could see an appropriate uptime on it.
While there are some things that do make sense for me, there are also some which don't. Let me start with those that do:
1) Even as exclusive destro player I fully agree initial change was completely overturned and I have no issues with it being adopted
2) Making it grp proc is also positive change in my mind, you think about how you wanna build your parties, it works equally for both small and large scale etc

Where are don't really follow logic is:
1) It was supposed to be mirror/counter to Knight Dirty Tricks tactic (mentioned by Secrets few times in explanation), but Knights do not lose anything for this tactic to proc, while Chosen is supposed to lose tankiness in order for this to be effective? For DT Knights are specking full tank, while it is expected from Chosen to drop at least 15-30 Renown Points to make this tactic somewhat work - not really fair in my opinion
2) "On taking crit damage" seems to be the issue, while "when you block" on knight spec is not? This doesn't seem consistent to me, as you can argue Knight is much more likely to block than Chosen is to be crit (depending on gear)
3) It is expected from Chosen to be active ability requiring unique stile of play/gear/spec, while this is not the case at all for Knight - also not consistent and not worth that 2% additional reduction in my opinion

Changes I find would be more fair are potentially:
1) Make this tactic give crit as well. It would make it a bit too potent and potentially require to remove other 15% flat crit one, but I don't see how is it fair to require Chosens to either drop Tankiness, or equip 2 tactics instead of 1 just to overcome that 2% additional Crit reduction (check Secrets logic in first post, I like it - tactics are balanced based on Renown point cost)
2) Make it also proc based on def stat - block/parry/dodge&disrupt - for me this makes much more sense. I see that you guys intended it to be both offensive and defensive tactic, so block wouldn't work here. For me proc on parry makes most sense, as it is def stat for 2hand tanks

P.S. I am enjoying communication stile from Secrets on this post so much. Direct, open and much kinder. Keep it up, great improvement in my opinion!
Zealot 84, Sorc 83, BG 83, WP 50+

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests