[FEEDBACK] Keep Siege Feedback, Mk. II

[Vayra]

7.
Defending is currently waaaaaay easier. Defenders should never lose a keep to an equal amount of attackers so long as they are not pants on head retarded. This makes defending waayy more rewarding than attacking as you're already getting more kills + the defense tick and chest for a successful defense.
So imo defending is currently way more rewarding than attacking, so I would suggest limiting the amount of loot for successful defense severely, for example by removing purple bags from defense. That would provide a good incentive to attacking for the people who want those sets and provide some increased attacking rewards to make up for the rr / inf advantage for defenders.

[Daknallbomb]

if u incrase atacker reward than we got avoiding wbs that going 4 empty keeps 100% -.-
The game is rly nice the System is rly nice but 80 % of the Players are greedy lazy i want all for nothing in fast time Players ...

[th3gatekeeper]

1. Did the doors take too long to destroy? Were they too easy?
I like the current speed in which doors go down. You dont feel it takes 5 years and its less time the defense has to sit behind the wall and poor oil on everyone. I wouldnt change this IMO.

2. Did you find that artillery is too hard to destroy? Too easy? Have not tested this yet.

3. Does the cooldown on deploying an oil or ram seem like too long? too short? This seemed pretty fair so far. Not TOO long where you are waiting too long, but not ultra short either. It provides meaning to actually killing Oil as it cant immediately be replaced - giving you time for rams or a morale push.

4. As a defender, what do you feel are the best tools at your disposal? Oil/Funneling - the fact there is only 1 entrance allows a smaller force to really hold off a larger one.


5. As a defender, do you feel like you had enough time to reach a besieged keep to defend it?
Yes, its pretty short atm and by the time you realize a keep is under attack, you try to run to it, sometimes getting ganked on the way by a 6 man group picking off people trying to get TO the keep, or if not, and you get to the keep the outer door is down. Quite frankly, I think more emphasis should be placed on BOs, so that your FIRST reaction shouldnt be "run to the keep quick!" it should be "Quick lets go cap a BO or two and halt progression". This is where I think the "lock" timers on the BOs should be dropped to 3:00 so that almost all the BOs are available to re-capture. Since the doors dont take a TON of time to take down, which is good IMO, a portion of the "defense" should come from re-capturing BOs. The BIG issue here, is Oil is so lucrative, Youll get some solo player who hops on Oil, drop group and drop oil for tons of kills. Or if your in a WB, you feel as if you miss out on the influence/RP for kills if you leave to recapture BOs. Rewards (IMO) should be zone wide for things like warbands. Then you can actually play tactically and send people away from the keep where they dont fear loss of rewards. Also BOs need to play a larger roll in keep offense/defense so that its almost more viable to battle over BOs rather than hide behind keeps dropping Oil. I think putting significant "bonuses" on the BOs to more drastically affect the keep siege would make the battle for BOs more important. For instance, some BOs should provide a big increase to seige equipment damage. Meaning re-capture that, and it slows the ability to break doors. Another could be door health, re-capture that and it boosts the health of the doors a good deal, etc. Just an idea.


6. As an attacker, what do you feel are the best tools at your disposal? Seige equipment, hands down. As a tank (Chosen) I cant really contribute much to anything... Even trying to morale rush the door, its such a choke point you get nuked down. I think another thing that could be done here would be to make the doors MUCH larger, creating less of a choke point and making it less viable to just AoE the door area. Making it larger allows for opposing forces to funnel in at a faster pace.

7. Do you feel it is currently easier to attack or defend a keep, against an equal number of opponents? Defend for SURE! You can defend with WAY less people than attacking. Also its more lucrative too where people search for AAO, run in, drop Oil and watch the green and purple numbers fly up their screen.

[Zanilos]

Everything seems pretty much ok, we will need to keep it like it is for a few weeks and see what's going to happen.

Only issue with oil, you can stay stealth and use it. Siege is pretty much ok. Time depends on zone, but that's fine.

Unfortunately the biggest issue is again a community one.

Order premades want to defend, Destro pugs want to attack. There is a big difference in the shear amount of RvR focused guilds on Order side. Or even 6 man guilds. Some people on destro side try to herd the cats, but that just leads to zergs pushing for defence ticks.

[th3gatekeeper]

Everything seems pretty much ok, we will need to keep it like it is for a few weeks and see what's going to happen.

Only issue with oil, you can stay stealth and use it. Siege is pretty much ok. Time depends on zone, but that's fine.

Unfortunately the biggest issue is again a community one.

Order premades want to defend, Destro pugs want to attack. There is a big difference in the shear amount of RvR focused guilds on Order side. Or even 6 man guilds. Some people on destro side try to herd the cats, but that just leads to zergs pushing for defence ticks.

The only GLARING issue I have experienced is on a successful defense in TM on order, we waited FOREVER for the def tick. I gave up and logged out onto my Chosen and a buddy of mine I guess was "trolling" by staying stealthed on his WE and throwing a dagger at the door every few minutes so it took damage and wouldnt regen. Dunno when the def tick happened but it was FAR after I had logged out 30+ min later... So that might be something to consider.

Yes your summary is correct. More order guilds who focus on RvR and more destro PUGs who try to do RvR. Destro PUGs just wanna attack everything, while order groups just wanna defend...

[Danielle]

1. Did the doors take too long to destroy? Were they too easy?

Slightly too easy to destroy. 2% felt too slow, 5% feels too fast. Somewhere between those 2 values might be ideal.

2. Did you find that artillery is too hard to destroy? Too easy?

Adequate.

3. Does the cooldown on deploying an oil or ram seem like too long? too short?

These cooldowns seem adequate.

4. As a defender, what do you feel are the best tools at your disposal?

a. Oil
b. Tank walls that force enemy under the oil
c. Flanking from posterns.

5. As a defender, do you feel like you had enough time to reach a besieged keep to defend it?

It feels like it's harder to reach a keep to defend it. Scouting is required now. I do not necessarily think this is wrong.

6. As an attacker, what do you feel are the best tools at your disposal?

a. Enemy sitting at a different keep waiting for a defense tick that is exploitable.
b. Rams
c. Taking control of outer oil with mdps
d. Element of surprise.
e. Numbers

7. Do you feel it is currently easier to attack or defend a keep, against an equal number of opponents?

I feel like it's easier to defend a keep against equal opponents.

[Karast]

1. Did the doors take too long to destroy? Were they too easy?
The doors drop much faster. I think they feel too easy.

2. Did you find that artillery is too hard to destroy? Too easy?
Rams, and cannons are good. Oil drops way too fast. In a large siege it has 2-3 seconds of up time before dropping. It needs more health or reduced damage.

3. Does the cooldown on deploying an oil or ram seem like too long? too short?
The cooldowns are good.

4. As a defender, what do you feel are the best tools at your disposal?
Oil, and cannons.

5. As a defender, do you feel like you had enough time to reach a besieged keep to defend it?
No. It is hard to tell if a keep is under attack and the doors drop a lot faster now. A lot of guild groups are doing keeps with 1-2 fgs in offzones to farm bags, they run if there is any opposition. With buggy zone maps. By the time you find out the keep is under attack it is often lost since small groups may hit 2-3 keeps at the same time.

6. As an attacker, what do you feel are the best tools at your disposal?
Hitting an offzone while the defenders wait for defense bags. Leaving siege alive on the outer walls to limit siege in the inner keep.

7. Do you feel it is currently easier to attack or defend a keep, against an equal number of opponents?
If populations are even defending is easier, since you can funnel. But if you defend one keep, you lose 2-3 others to PvE groups.

[Miszczu5647]

Ad.1.
I am somewhere between "it's ok" and "to fast". Maybe 1% reduction od damage?

Ad.2.
Oil is too easy to destroy. When it deliver physical damage and armor can mitigate it oil should have more HP.

Ad. 3.
It's ok.

Ad. 4.
Oil and cannons especially few aoe ones.

Ad. 5.
If someone want to defend the time is ok. If someone don't want to then even a month wouldn't by enough.

Ad. 6.
Rams cannons and hitting the keep before defenders organize themselves. With the rewards for defending there always will be defenders.

Ad.7.
Defending is sooooo much easier. This is actually a problem. Zanilos wrote something about this.

Other observations:
Maybe respawn should by change only to WC. This would give as another strategy - cutting off reinforcements. If some side hit the keep before defenders arrive organized group (mainly maps) could cut everyone before reaching the keep. This also helps to neutralize oil (I ambush defenders on oil spot when we hit Etaine two days ago - AM gone down and KotBS run and we destroy gate before oil was used.). But the respawn in keep and waiting for us on inner.
If this change could by implemented then rewards for defending could remain on current level. Otherwise it should by dropped a little bit (less bags maybe).

[Tesq]

1-no kinda k
3-cap flag: if things go bad is the best thing to do, but it's too an hard counter for attackers and it's pretty lazy and easy for defender as attackers need to focus on the keep defender can spread as much they want, it's too easy for defender go here and there like pass from pve etc, and zones are too big andmake this tactic over effective. 4 flg dosen't help if we could have 5 flag it would be better the need of 3 to attack but 3/4 is really overkilling for a siege.
5-yes
6-we have none: ram is not a good tool it is mandatory to siege, it's the base we have that and only that , stack cannons on door too is probably impossible with defender. To suffamarize defender have many way to interfer with siege before / if possible wipe enemy/stop the siege, attackers have none. The flag requisite for exemple is such only for attkers, if defenders have 0 flag this do not create them anyproblem.
7-it's too easier defend with equal number and close party composition, the duration on door is fine but the atkers attention can be diverted too easily by defenders, it's likely defenders know what will happen and play all day with attackers until role swap. Attakers play defender game, it should be the opposite defender should def when they have no other option and be at merce of attackers.

generally all seems work better now, i want to point out some interation between stuff too.

it would bre preferable if oil+ aoe cannons woulp help cleanse ram spot, so aoe cannos should work in that regard and pressure ram spot not an all in one aoe buff to defender.
Attackers close the oil gap having all defenders close due to being on walls or inside tunnel but defender need to not surpass a certain degree of aoe with oil + aoe cannons or it's really too much advantageous for them.

Aoe /st cannons could have a CD too, currently there is no issue if you loose a cannon, you just re pop one; while this is money hungry teorically one peep can keep spam cannons and so the point of counter the enemy cannons became pointless if they can just be re pop it istantly. Maybe you could introduces a timer for x cannons too so that when 1 go down you can't istantly re pop another one.

[th3gatekeeper]

it's too easy for defender go here and there like pass from pve etc, and zones are too big andmake this tactic over effective. 4 flg dosen't help if we could have 5 flag it would be better the need of 3 to attack but 3/4 is really overkilling for a siege.

6-we have none: ram is not a good tool it is mandatory to siege, it's the base we have that and only that , stack cannons on door too is probably impossible with defender. To suffamarize defender have many way to interfer with siege before / if possible wipe enemy/stop the siege, attackers have none. The flag requisite for exemple is such only for attkers, if defenders have 0 flag this do not create them anyproblem.
7-it's too easier defend with equal number and close party composition, the duration on door is fine but the atkers attention can be diverted too easily by defenders, it's likely defenders know what will happen and play all day with attackers until role swap. Attakers play defender game, it should be the opposite defender should def when they have no other option and be at merce of attackers.

Ive often wondered if it were possible to incoorperate something like:


You see these on Gate of Ekrund on the Destro side as the ramp to get up to the wall... If something like that could be implemented, make it movable, make it VERY slow, and easy to disable/repair, it could be a viable way to take a keep. Basically distract the defense long enough to post up one of these on a wall to provide another route into the inner section of a wall. This provides another means of bypassing the choke point and forcing defense to play slightly offensively and push the fight back to offense since its only a matter of time until one of these hits the keep...

If you incoorperate a "resource" mechanic into BOs (something that has been talked about) rather than gold being used to purchase these things, and now someone basically HAS to capture 3-4 BOs to get the resources required for a tower - which is HUGE incentive to take BOs in order to buy one of these things... Doing this provides the attackers with a very viable means of getting around the choke point, attack from an angle not suspected which forces defense to be more aware and work together splitting defensive forces up.