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[DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

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[DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#1 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:42 pm

Greetings community!

I'd like to start a discussion for the people who are involved in 6 versus 6 group fights, mostly those in Scenarios. With Caledor Woods introduced as a 6v6 scenario we have seen a rise and increased interest for this kind of play style, but also got a few reports of certain concerns and grievances in regard the current and future 6v6 scenarios.

As it stands, we are planning to introduce the Eternal Citadel as a 6 versus 6 Scenario, after we get all possible exploits fixed. The main issue that has been noted is the fact that the Eternal Citadel is a Scenario renowned for its ability to crowd control people by use of well-executed long-range punting into the abyss, which favours the use of IBs/BGs, and even KotBS/Chosen here.

As a means to gather player opinion from the groups that will be playing here, I would like to know from those individuals who play in 6 man premade groups are either for or against the placement of an invisible wall along the Eternal Citadel's playing field, to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Not only do we wish to hear a YES or NO to the idea, we'd also like to hear some constructive arguments as to why we should, or shouldn't, be making this change.

There will not be a simple yes/no poll on this topic as we believe the reason to either be for or against the placement of a wall, should be well-argumented. This will also result in weighing out each possible pro and con to each other that will lead us to our decision.

Debate away!

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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#2 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:59 pm

I speak on behalf of my guild when I say that we are for the placement of an invisible wall.

* If I am right in assuming that this scenario is designated for premades (and purported to be the premade scenario), then there must be a limit of cheese mechanics, i.e. ways in which a person can be killed simply with one click/a 100% success punt into the nether.
* It will necessitate the use of certain tanks over others (BO/SM will take a secondary role and will not be on par with the other tanks). Class diversity -should- be a thing.
* It will mean that the 6v6 will be less about an actual deathmatch encounter - which EC IS about, given that there is no objective - and more about keeping your asses next to the wall, waiting for your KB CD to come up again.

I think most other serious premades will echo my sentiments on this, but alas - I cannot, nor do not, speak for all.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#3 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:02 pm

First of all, thank you very much for thinking about us. To me that means a lot.

Secondly, voting FOR an invisible wall.

Reasoning: Hazards promote cheese play. 6v6 can certainly be slightly changed by engaging Scenario mechanics, punt to death is not something I had in mind for this.

Punts are too random. Punting targets away from their guardee can be done by strafing. punting into the abyss requires you to punt into a specific direction hence all your target has to do is face you, at which point it's all about parry/block. So RNG.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#4 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:16 pm

I havn't played EC so don't know how big an issue it is, but from what i've heard it seems like a big issue.

I think it would be a nice touch if it were possible to punt a player into his death, for the sole purpose of a player/team making a decision to try and punt a player to his death or go for the safer option to punt away the tank and go for the kill in the traditional way.

This would make you have to think one extra time before you grant a player immunity. HOWEVER, this would only work if it were really hard to execute the "death-punt", risk-reward and all that..
And that might be too time consuming to pull off for the devs to warrant a change of the map(considering what i've heard from other players describing the SC).

just my 5 cents.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#5 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:23 pm

i agree ec is melee friendly enough, no need for insta kill punts. (if it was a second floor and not a death field, where punted could get back without being killed it be ok though).
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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#6 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:26 pm

Niemand hat die Absicht eine Mauer zu bauen.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#7 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:46 pm

I'll speak for my CCM/CCMezz mates (2 x 6 man groups).
First, I agree with what was said above : thank you for thinking about us.

We agree with the placement of an invisible wall.

* If the scenario is designed to do 6v6, it should not be turned into another game where players are only trying to punt other to death as fast as possible. It not using a wall, then it would be some place where you can fight and have fun with a 6man, but definitly not a place where you can do regular and interesting 6v6 fights.

* If we want to win every EC, should we change our setup to use 4 IB? This would be pointless...

* We are currently using 3-2-1 set up (bc we don't want to use meta) : having our single tank punted to death would mean end of fight for our whole group.

* EC is a 6v6 scenario where melee dps setups already are kings. Not using a wall would make it even more difficult for rdps (because fighting in a smaller area while trying to dodge punts)...

Note: as a 6man group using RDPS, EC isn't our favorite, Caledor Woods will still be. ;)
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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#8 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:01 am

I vote NO. EC is not designed to be a serious 6v6 and will never be, even with a wall. The point of the sc is to punt the ennemy and to avoid punts.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#9 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:02 am

invisible wall or not wont change the extreme melee friendly sc where rdps are totaly useless.

My suggestion is to put water on the empty spot so the map will become abit larger and that terrain will help abit rdps and kitting
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Re: [DISCUSSION] - Upcoming EC 6v6 Scenario

Post#10 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:20 am

I am FOR the wall for the reasons below:

-as stated above it favors certain classes over others in tank choice and healer choice while also allowing for the insta kill of a player with no counter besides proper positioning.
-It is an already melee friendly area and the kiting area is reduced when you can not use half the map for fear of punt death.

another suggestion to improve this SC would be to extend the platform out about another 50-100 feet to make it into a larger area to better help rdps groups balance in. Im not sure if that is possible but I think it would go a long way to opening up the SC to all 6 mans as calador woods pushes the fight onto a flag and the terrain does not favor RDPS due to los issues. A true 6v6 is a death match. Objectives should not factor in.
Last edited by Tklees on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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