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[Gear] State Stabilization

These proposals have passed an internal review and are implemented in some way on the server. Review for specific implementation details.
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Eathisword
Posts: 808

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#211 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:52 am

Nycta wrote: (some philosophical metaphysics about game theory)...
If interest towards this game, as well as joy, can only be replenished by new content for most of the players involved then this project becomes limited...
In a profoundly simple sense, every game is limited. So is pretty much every aspect of our human life. But such considerations must not prevent us to give our best shot to any particular enterprise that we hold dear. Be it a video game, a career, a sport...

<<New>> need not be something that is digitally created in the game. It can be pretty much anything. Yaliska photo-op contest was new and kept a bunch of us involved and exploring for awhile. Live events get every one going. And the such. The potential for <<new>> in a finite environment is not contained within finite boundaries, but only by what we can imagine inside them, which is, by all definition of the human mind, infinite :shock:
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Noiree
Posts: 369

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#212 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:03 am

Nycta wrote: A game also has a beginning and an ending. In our case, progress in stats - be it from gear or rank - and appearance, distributed via a system of effort and reward, where intelligence, skill as well as luck are factors, creates the space necessary for the players to experience the gaps that they will create among them, given time, until most get their BiS shinnies. Then new players, alts, lower tier adventures, pve and a multitude of other ways around boredom, with the swamp inevitably rising daily, will be all that is left before each of us decides that it is the end of the road and move on. The end comes with the exhaustion of interest.
You're thinking in live server dimensions. This server is a whole new situation. You will never have pure 40s scenarios. The amount of players is just not there, so you have to find a way to let everyone have fun, meaning newbies not getting constantly roflstomped by older players and older players getting bored because they're mostly camping a spawn.
Sooner or later you will have Sovereign wearing players up against lvl 31s in greens and neither of those sides will be enjoyable.

You can't let the game continue as it was because times changed. Azarael got the chance to change this game and is obviously willing to so why not grab the chance?

(Maybe start a threat where everyone posts their ideas? - no discussion there, just listing)
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gone with the wipe - RIP:
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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#213 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:37 am

Someday we will hit rr80. progression might end
everchanging battlefield should give us reason to go on.
same as gear. there will be an end of progression at some point.
I don't think new gear, new rr should be the reason for ppl to play.
It should be war that drives the game
I'm afraid balance change is one thing that makes war refresh
There is a lot of cry, whine. almost none compliment.
well.. some noise filtering is needed

Maybe take a long term or cycle for balance change, one at a time
changing play style is really hard, almost impossible sometimes
time will help, I think
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porkstar
Posts: 721

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#214 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:47 am

Eathisword wrote:
Nycta wrote: (some philosophical metaphysics about game theory)...
If interest towards this game, as well as joy, can only be replenished by new content for most of the players involved then this project becomes limited...
In a profoundly simple sense, every game is limited. So is pretty much every aspect of our human life. But such considerations must not prevent us to give our best shot to any particular enterprise that we hold dear. Be it a video game, a career, a sport...

<<New>> need not be something that is digitally created in the game. It can be pretty much anything. Yaliska photo-op contest was new and kept a bunch of us involved and exploring for awhile. Live events get every one going. And the such. The potential for <<new>> in a finite environment is not contained within finite boundaries, but only by what we can imagine inside them, which is, by all definition of the human mind, infinite :shock:
Very true! There will always be new things to do. For example, a person could find a buddy and both of them could roll DPS tanks. They could cross guard each other and troll the hell out of SCs. The possibilities are endless!!! ;)
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Penril wrote:So you are saying that a class you never touched is OP?
Go play it before posting about it pal...

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Eathisword
Posts: 808

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#215 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:00 am

porkstar wrote:
Spoiler:
Eathisword wrote:
Nycta wrote: (some philosophical metaphysics about game theory)...
If interest towards this game, as well as joy, can only be replenished by new content for most of the players involved then this project becomes limited...
In a profoundly simple sense, every game is limited. So is pretty much every aspect of our human life. But such considerations must not prevent us to give our best shot to any particular enterprise that we hold dear. Be it a video game, a career, a sport...

<<New>> need not be something that is digitally created in the game. It can be pretty much anything. Yaliska photo-op contest was new and kept a bunch of us involved and exploring for awhile. Live events get every one going. And the such. The potential for <<new>> in a finite environment is not contained within finite boundaries, but only by what we can imagine inside them, which is, by all definition of the human mind, infinite :shock:
Very true! There will always be new things to do. For example, a person could find a buddy and both of them could roll DPS tanks. They could cross guard each other and troll the hell out of SCs. The possibilities are endless!!! ;)
Its the only way i know how to play. Even on a tank, I need guard. The world is a scary place.
Farfadet, RR72 shaman
Volgograd, RR80 IB
Video thread here.

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porkstar
Posts: 721

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#216 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:44 am

Eathisword wrote: Its the only way i know how to play. Even on a tank, I need guard. The world is a scary place.
for reals what you say is truedatword!
Vagreena Auntie Dangercat
Porkstar Hamcat Coolwave
Penril wrote:So you are saying that a class you never touched is OP?
Go play it before posting about it pal...

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Stmichael1989
Posts: 184

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#217 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:55 am

Well this blew up over the course of one day.

I understand the reluctance to attempt balance knowing in advance that nearly every variable will change with gear progression. There's a difference though between adjusting equations and constants to make everything fit and altering the basic design of something.

I'm a chemical engineer by profession, so I'll use an example from my job. In process design, there's a concept known as inherently safe design. It's a practice of identifying where in your chemical plant something might go wrong, listing what could go wrong, and determining a way to make sure that, even when something goes wrong, nothing blows up and no toxic/corrosive chemicals are released.

Applying the spirit of that practice to game balance, it is possible to "balance" the game in such a way that there may be notable "imbalance", but nothing truly blows up.

Case in point, melee WP. It's generally accepted that it's a suboptimal spec, but higher levels of gear only exacerbate the issue. Melee healing imploded by sovereign level where armor values were absurdly high across the board. The example of "inherently safe design" in this case would be some of the .ab ex changes that allowed their melee heals to function regardless of armor value. Higher levels of gear may introduce a scaling issue that couldn't be controlled for without rebalancing at every gear increment, but at the very least it won't be rendered useless by high armor.

Even if the attempts to do things like fine tune each individual class come to an end, that's no reason to cease the open ended class balance changes that change the direction of a class for the better, even if it doesn't reach full balance.
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Nycta
Posts: 95

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#218 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:01 pm

Eathisword wrote:
Nycta wrote: (some philosophical metaphysics about game theory)...
If interest towards this game, as well as joy, can only be replenished by new content for most of the players involved then this project becomes limited...
In a profoundly simple sense, every game is limited. So is pretty much every aspect of our human life. But such considerations must not prevent us to give our best shot to any particular enterprise that we hold dear. Be it a video game, a career, a sport...

<<New>> need not be something that is digitally created in the game. It can be pretty much anything. Yaliska photo-op contest was new and kept a bunch of us involved and exploring for awhile. Live events get every one going. And the such. The potential for <<new>> in a finite environment is not contained within finite boundaries, but only by what we can imagine inside them, which is, by all definition of the human mind, infinite :shock:
By "limited" I was referring to the addition of new content(shinies and maps basically) which is in fact limited unless you think we can turn this into a WoW. We can't, and that was the point I made - class and pvp development is what we are left with basically. What I actually said, and you misunderstood, is that if the seemingly perpetual addition of content is what one needs to keep one's interest replenished, this is not the game one should pick.

Also, as one can find seemingly infinite things to do in a game, so can one find seemingly infinite things to do in other games, not to mention in life itself. Your point is empty, loss of interest doesn't necessarily come from the exhaustion of all permitted ways within a game, it could also mean "meh, screw this, I 'll go back to collecting nails!". Profoundly simple as well, isn't it?
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Play - "Winds of Insanity trololol, omnomnom!"
Nycta - "Not again!.."
Jumaru - "Tenderness beats harshness!"
Oblivion - *Beckons..*

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#219 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:18 pm

Some sort of ranking/ladder system for PvP in general (not limited to smallscale) would probably serve to alleviate some concerns regarding stagnant endgame, imo. As stated many times before, nothing rouses interest more easily than appealing to the ego! My 2 c
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Nycta
Posts: 95

Re: [Pending Final Review] State stabilization.

Post#220 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:20 pm

Noiree wrote:
Nycta wrote: A game also has a beginning and an ending. In our case, progress in stats - be it from gear or rank - and appearance, distributed via a system of effort and reward, where intelligence, skill as well as luck are factors, creates the space necessary for the players to experience the gaps that they will create among them, given time, until most get their BiS shinnies. Then new players, alts, lower tier adventures, pve and a multitude of other ways around boredom, with the swamp inevitably rising daily, will be all that is left before each of us decides that it is the end of the road and move on. The end comes with the exhaustion of interest.
You're thinking in live server dimensions. This server is a whole new situation. You will never have pure 40s scenarios. The amount of players is just not there, so you have to find a way to let everyone have fun, meaning newbies not getting constantly roflstomped by older players and older players getting bored because they're mostly camping a spawn.
Sooner or later you will have Sovereign wearing players up against lvl 31s in greens and neither of those sides will be enjoyable.

You can't let the game continue as it was because times changed. Azarael got the chance to change this game and is obviously willing to so why not grab the chance?

(Maybe start a threat where everyone posts their ideas? - no discussion there, just listing)
Read again, you misunderstood and jumped into conclusions alike the stuntie!

I do not object using a stabilizing system to avoid power creeps and create a more solid basis to balance classes upon. Neither am I a fan of how the game was originally and I 've stated so multiple times. On the other hand, I really enjoyed the vast differences in gear that were created in WAR, from both ends, the forced struggle to gear up and the overall thrill of the power creeps so I can understand those that merely want this. What I do not get, is why we stumble and stutter over such an issue in an Alpha phase server. Azarael's way to bridge gear gaps sounds like something worth trying at least, and balancing/re-approaching classes is a part of the game that can be developed more freely.
Yipikaye - "It doesn't taste like chicken!.."
Play - "Winds of Insanity trololol, omnomnom!"
Nycta - "Not again!.."
Jumaru - "Tenderness beats harshness!"
Oblivion - *Beckons..*

KnockedDown N :x :D bz

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