[Implemented] Crimson Death (duration)

[thullonse]

Spoiler:

SeemsGood but just keep in mind that marauders now have +40% crit chance without an enemies initiative calculated which means another 10%-20% + gear and renown which is another 18%-24%. worst case you have a marauder with 84% crit chance.

Edited by Penril - Marauder stuff. If only one destro class gets too strong because of this, that destro class will surely be addressed in a future balance thread.

[TenTonHammer]

Spoiler:

SeemsGood but just keep in mind that marauders now have +40% crit chance without an enemies initiative calculated which means another 10%-20% + gear and renown which is another 18%-24%. worst case you have a marauder with 84% crit chance.

Explain your numbers

Mara gets 20% with feeding on fear which mind you puts you at 30% chance to be crit when under the effects of kotbs auras furthermore Mara has very poor base iniative and as such high base crit chance which they have to mitigate by putting points into futile strikes and then points into str leaving littile for crit renown atm


Having said all that, where does the extra 20% crit chance come from for 40% crit chance?

Edited by Penril - Same thing as above. Stick to discussing BG guys.

[thullonse]

Spoiler:

SeemsGood but just keep in mind that marauders now have +40% crit chance without an enemies initiative calculated which means another 10%-20% + gear and renown which is another 18%-24%. worst case you have a marauder with 84% crit chance.

Explain your numbers

Mara gets 20% with feeding on fear which mind you puts you at 30% chance to be crit when under the effects of kotbs auras furthermore Mara has very poor base iniative and as such high base crit chance which they have to mitigate by putting points into futile strikes and then points into str leaving littile for crit renown atm


Having said all that, where does the extra 20% crit chance come from for 40% crit chance?

20% - Feeding on Fear
10% - Deeply Impaled
10% - Crimson Death
= 40%

Edited by Penril - Same thing

[TenTonHammer]

Spoiler:

20% - Feeding on Fear
10% - Deeply Impaled
10% - Crimson Death
= 40%

Piercing bite, feeding on fear, growing instability

These 3 are mandatory after which their are a variety of other tactics that take more precedence tbt

Such as BF, flanking, deadly clutch

Furthermore all that you've stated, this 84% chance crit Mara already exists since cd already does what it does and mara already has all of those so this is nothing new and no complaints have been voiced of it

Furthermore if you steal initiative with BO you can have 100%+ crit chance on a target for everyone, not just mara

Lastly i want to point out that if you replace a tank in your party with a 2h tank, espically a 2h bg tank, then it needs to be worth it

Edited by Penril - same thing

[gungnir08]

I don't have a ton of recent experience playing BG (had a RR80 one on live though), but I don't see any problems with this change.

Given the massive tradeoff a BG makes when eschewing its shield for a two-handed weapon, this change should be made, and more besides. Losing a 5 second knockdown and the ability to block are massive sacrifices to make if the only tangible benefit gained in return is the utility offered by Crimson Death.

Damage might need to be reassessed down the line, once better gear and higher-DPS weapons are available, though. Back on the live servers, I knew a few BGs that ran builds specifically tailored to killing Archmages back when Tyrant gear was overpowered (and ignoring AMs spamming 1.5 sec cast group heals ad infinitum was a recipe for disaster), and they really illuminated the class's capacity for tearing cloth healers down singlehandedly in the right hands.

[Gachimuchi]

2H BG can't effectively tank anyway, this is just dressing up a part of the class that doesn't underpreform nearly as much(damage) as the others to make it more appealing. Sure, you can buff it and it will make BG a bit better.

Will it make them viable? Maybe it will improve their usefulness in zerg on zerg action, otherwise the class still falls flat.

[Tklees]

For duration increase with no concessions given, encouraging spec diversity should be one of the goals of balance and this will go a long way to encouraging the use of the 2h BG tree. More still needs to be done but this change is a fix to a need the class has.

As a moderation point please keep posts related to subject and follow guidelines and use facts to support any arguments against the posted suggestion, facts are numbers related with the math worked out to support them. Posts confirming the changes need should also state why the change should be made ie spec diversity in my post or TenTons posts in this thread. Thank you for your input to all who have posted.

[thullonse]

Spoiler:

20% - Feeding on Fear
10% - Deeply Impaled
10% - Crimson Death
= 40%

Piercing bite, feeding on fear, growing instability

These 3 are mandatory after which their are a variety of other tactics that take more precedence tbt

Such as BF, flanking, deadly clutch

Furthermore all that you've stated, this 84% chance crit Mara already exists since cd already does what it does and mara already has all of those so this is nothing new and no complaints have been voiced of it

Furthermore if you steal initiative with BO you can have 100%+ crit chance on a target for everyone, not just mara

Lastly i want to point out that if you replace a tank in your party with a 2h tank, espically a 2h bg tank, then it needs to be worth it

stuff changes if you run double marauder. the fact that they have such an overloaded kit makes them one of the strongest, if you not the strongest, melee class in the game at the current state.
also CD currently has an uptime of 50%(5sec duration/10sec cooldown) so the change to 100% is more than welcome for a weaker build which is 2h blackguard at the moment.
all im saying is that with changes like that you have to keep in mind other classes and the synergy with such buffs. thats all.

ps: i dont want this to become a marauder op thread since its clearly about the BG change.

Edited by Penril - No one wants this to become a mara thread. So this is the last time i spoiler posts for you guys. Next one to derail thread will be issued a warning and have his post deleted.

[Vigfuss]

The S&B BG fits best in a ranged group, where it covers some of the debuffs otherwise applied by a marauder and brings tank utility to keep Order off the squishy RDPS.

2H BG isn't a meta spec, and I would argue against trying to bring dps tanks in line with MDPS classes for a bunch of reasons. That said, I don't think it would be a really big deal to change it. If the idea was to remove the great-weapon requirement it would be more significant.

[TenTonHammer]

The S&B BG fits best in a ranged group, where it covers some of the debuffs otherwise applied by a marauder and brings tank utility to keep Order off the squishy RDPS.

2H BG isn't a meta spec, and I would argue against trying to bring dps tanks in line with MDPS classes for a bunch of reasons. That said, I don't think it would be a really big deal to change it. If the idea was to remove the great-weapon requirement it would be more significant.

Firstly no 2h tank will ever compete with a real dps in dmg even with FO

Now how does a BG fit into a 1-3-2 rdps grp which has classes like Shammy and sorc for whom chosen resist debuff or BO iniative steal + WAAAGH! is better?

Yes 2h Bg is not meta, but it should be, the ideal state of this game that we strive to is where every playstyle is considered viable/"meta"