[Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic

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Olderico
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date Apr 22]

Post#41 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:17 pm

Take my apologies,
I miss to specific that I just speaking about a guerrilla training tactic
And what I mean was to change this tactic to give a bit less ap reduction plus a less cast time reduction instead of the tread proposal
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Koha
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date April 22]

Post#42 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm

dansari wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:20 pm
(...)
If you go a hybrid spec it would always be to Skirm imo. You wouldn't get Glass Arrow with an Assault spec, you'd get the heal debuff. The only time you really take advantage of Eagle Eye is with points in Scout.
of course you have to spend points in scout tree, but you did not understand my point. Glass arrow and EE are probably gonna hit harder in assault stance, thx to the WS buff of assault stance and 5% crit from skirmish is crap compared to double init debuff from assault tree+conque. Glass Arrow hits harder than EE why not take it if you invest points in scout tree ?
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daniilpb
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date April 22]

Post#43 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:49 pm

Koha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm
dansari wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:20 pm
(...)
If you go a hybrid spec it would always be to Skirm imo. You wouldn't get Glass Arrow with an Assault spec, you'd get the heal debuff. The only time you really take advantage of Eagle Eye is with points in Scout.
of course you have to spend points in scout tree, but you did not understand my point. Glass arrow and EE are probably gonna hit harder in assault stance, thx to the WS buff of assault stance and 5% crit from skirmish is crap compared to double init debuff from assault tree+conque. Glass Arrow hits harder than EE why not take it if you invest points in scout tree ?

You would basically lose too much damage from dots and, you know, 100% uptime heal debuff is always a thing. Your Glass Arrow and EE casts won't help much in focusing of a key target in group play.
Also (competitive) Assault builds are quite low on ballistics (compared to Skirmish build for example) so there is not much sence in casting range skills hoping that they will make any kind of difference.
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date April 22]

Post#44 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:47 pm

Koha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:40 pm
dansari wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:20 pm
(...)
If you go a hybrid spec it would always be to Skirm imo. You wouldn't get Glass Arrow with an Assault spec, you'd get the heal debuff. The only time you really take advantage of Eagle Eye is with points in Scout.
of course you have to spend points in scout tree, but you did not understand my point. Glass arrow and EE are probably gonna hit harder in assault stance, thx to the WS buff of assault stance and 5% crit from skirmish is crap compared to double init debuff from assault tree+conque. Glass Arrow hits harder than EE why not take it if you invest points in scout tree ?
Agreed with danii -- unless Scout was buffed there is no point going Glass Arrow instead of Shadow Sting in an Assault build. The heal debuff is simply too strong to pass up, as it is the only spammable one any order dps has.
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dansari
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date Apr 22]

Post#45 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:50 pm

What if this was tweaked to be a crit or damage buff when over X ft from target? Like the opposite of No Respite.
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daniilpb
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date Apr 22]

Post#46 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:27 pm

dansari wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:50 pm
What if this was tweaked to be a crit or damage buff when over X ft from target? Like the opposite of No Respite.
You can always get advantage of No Respite because everything in WAR comes to close quarters eventually. A lot of places in this game force you to fight toe to toe: whole bunch of BOs, Keeps after door's down, scenarios like Gates of Ekrund, Isha around the flag, EC... etc, even some retarded zones like streets of Praag, almost whole Dwarf-Greenskins pairing and other low tiers.
So, basically, it would make Scout SWs worry about range/LOS problems even more. I don't think, the stance should have even more restrictions to benefit from "future" buffs.
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anarchypark
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date Apr 22]

Post#47 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:26 am

scout main spec is hard to use in roaming battle due to long cast and flight time of arrow.

but you put scouts in bad situations too much.
1 scout tree vs guard+healing...
you mentioned AP starvation, then suggest to get rid of AP tactic.
yea it's less useful in roaming.
that's position issue IMO.

simple dmg buff is lazy solution.
It will turn Scout into sorc/bw without disrupt.
it also bring side effects in siege.
and ruin class mechanic.
stick to 1range stance among 2 range stance should not be the way.

here's alternative suggestion.
- reduce cast time by 25~30%

It's less attractive than crit buff to stick to scout stance.

skirmish tree have range increasing tactic at 13pt.
it's mobility tree but gets scout concept bonus.
scouts could use skirmish concept too - mobility

2stance cover each other, make it easy to switch.
less penalty with wrong stance by mistake.

ppl might stick to 1 stance but that's player's fault.
less risky, less effective.
more aggressive, more effective.
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Panzerkasper
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date Apr 22]

Post#48 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:08 am

So according to OP there are 3 Problems to Scout:

1. AP issues
>Suggests to remove ap tactic :shock:

2. Long Cast times, avoidance and projectile speed
> Well, every range class in WAR uses projectiles at some point. If you point this out as an issue, then it is a general issue and not an issue to the SWs scout spec. Projectile Speed, LoS, avoicance, cast times are not a Scout problem. You also have the same problems as a Havoc-Magus, Big-Shootin-SH or a Rifle-Engi.

3. Lack of Burst
>This is more a result of the two problem mentioned above, so i honestly don't see how a crit tactic should fix these two issues mentioned above. How does a critbuff help, when you have no ap, LoS or get dodged?
Also note, that SW already has an inbuild damage buff (Vengeance of Nagarythe)
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daniilpb
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date Apr 22]

Post#49 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:43 am

Panzerkasper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:08 am
So according to OP there are 3 Problems to Scout:

1. AP issues
>Suggests to remove ap tactic :shock:

2. Long Cast times, avoidance and projectile speed
> Well, every range class in WAR uses projectiles at some point. If you point this out as an issue, then it is a general issue and not an issue to the SWs scout spec. Projectile Speed, LoS, avoicance, cast times are not a Scout problem. You also have the same problems as a Havoc-Magus, Big-Shootin-SH or a Rifle-Engi.

3. Lack of Burst
>This is more a result of the two problem mentioned above, so i honestly don't see how a crit tactic should fix these two issues mentioned above. How does a critbuff help, when you have no ap, LoS or get dodged?
Also note, that SW already has an inbuild damage buff (Vengeance of Nagarythe)
Firstly, everything you listed COULD be considered as simple downsides IF build had strengths but currently effort/reward is not in balance. Therefore, I wanted to give build a strong side which could justify those issues.
Secondly, this is not possible to fix EVERY problem of the build with one tactic (I made some more proposals to make scout life a bit easier). Also, if every problem would be fixed, it doesn’t guarantee that the build would become viable (it will be simple medium effort/low reward situation).
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dansari
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Re: [Shadow Warrior] Guerrilla Training Tactic [Close Date Apr 22]

Post#50 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Panzerkasper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:08 am
So according to OP there are 3 Problems to Scout:

1. AP issues
>Suggests to remove ap tactic :shock:

2. Long Cast times, avoidance and projectile speed
> Well, every range class in WAR uses projectiles at some point. If you point this out as an issue, then it is a general issue and not an issue to the SWs scout spec. Projectile Speed, LoS, avoicance, cast times are not a Scout problem. You also have the same problems as a Havoc-Magus, Big-Shootin-SH or a Rifle-Engi.

3. Lack of Burst
>This is more a result of the two problem mentioned above, so i honestly don't see how a crit tactic should fix these two issues mentioned above. How does a critbuff help, when you have no ap, LoS or get dodged?
Also note, that SW already has an inbuild damage buff (Vengeance of Nagarythe)
Other casters/physical dps have long cast times but they're able to supplement with 100ft instant casts/dots so it's easier to stay mobile and, in the case of magus/engy, an undefendable snipe/bolt. Making Fester undefendable isn't viable because Enchanted Arrows exists, so the OP is simply looking at other options.
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