[SW] Scout Stance

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lefze
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#11 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:57 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:04 am
Image

This screenshot is from Lefze doing scout rotations on target dummy in altdorf with 1054 ballistic skill and a subjugator weapon. Best possible scenario since he was not moving.

Image

This one is the same thing except he emulated combat by moving which lowered his (max)dps by about 10%.

Couple things about these screenshots, the dummies do not have any mitigation, and you always crit them. His auto attacks did 604 without vengeance. So they would do 302 before mitigation on a non critical hit.

So with this in mind, a 50% increase to auto attack damage while in scout should not break the balance bank.
Should add that you have to ignore the dps numbers from upper right hand corner of enemy, I don't use it so it's broken through addon settings.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#12 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:02 pm

Right, but then fester becomes an ability in the scout tree that will never see any serious play, so then attempting to move away from fester as an ability for scout would create a chain of events in which fester would have to be removed entirely because it's an underperforming/useless ability.

So I would say, unless you're looking to 100% rework scout, an attempt should be made to make fester usable in some fashion. As far as I'm concerned, this thread isn't about a full rework either.

SW can already cast fester at 1.5 second by using their 2nd tier morale ability to halve all cast times, and morale for a ranged dps builds very quickly because of almost permanent uptime. Somehow, it still never sees any play despite this possibility. So there's a bit more evidence in favor of a 1.5 second cast fester not being overpowered than there is against it, especially since in this case it would be tied to a random proc.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#13 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:22 pm

I disagree with the argument that just because you're capable of getting out 1.5s festers via FM means that 1.5s festers wouldn't be overperforming, even tied to an RNG proc. It doesn't see much play currently because it's very gimmicky and if your burst window gets defended you've basically burned 1min of a fight. 2s festers would be the lowest I'd go outside of a morale supplement. Fester is still plenty strong, when it works, but getting it to work is the downside.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#14 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:03 pm

live4treasure wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:02 pm
Right, but then fester becomes an ability in the scout tree that will never see any serious play, so then attempting to move away from fester as an ability for scout would create a chain of events in which fester would have to be removed entirely because it's an underperforming/useless ability.

So I would say, unless you're looking to 100% rework scout, an attempt should be made to make fester usable in some fashion. As far as I'm concerned, this thread isn't about a full rework either.

SW can already cast fester at 1.5 second by using their 2nd tier morale ability to halve all cast times, and morale for a ranged dps builds very quickly because of almost permanent uptime. Somehow, it still never sees any play despite this possibility. So there's a bit more evidence in favor of a 1.5 second cast fester not being overpowered than there is against it, especially since in this case it would be tied to a random proc.
Making a lot of incorrect assumptions there, buddie. Fester is very much an extremely good ability at the moment, but what's the point of playing with it when you quite literally can afford to fight for about 3 seconds after a cast because of the rest of the kit? And to put it in plain numbers, fester can potentially crit for about 3.6k. That's about 3 times the amount of damage eagle eye would put out as a realistic maximum, only that fester consistently pulls off those numbers, in fact it usually hits harder on a guarded target than eagle eye would on a squishy unguarded one.

As for your M2 argument, man, do you think it's anything other than **** awesome at the moment? Still, it's just a crutch and still requires you to spec No Quarter to not be a complete joke. 3.6k damage alone doesn't do much of anything, 3.6k damage with good follow up and sustained damage connected to it will kill **** hard. And scout is already kinda doing that, but it's just too AP strained to be consistent in the slightest. I do agree that fester could use a liiiittle help with the cast time, but 50% reductions outside of M2? No thanks.

My view is that Scout as a whole should be fixed by fixing the AP issues mainly, and fester functionality should be fixed by for example a Rune of Speed proposal. Order does kind of have the tools for a lot of issues to be solved, but sadly the tools themselves need some tweaking in a lot of cases.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#15 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:15 pm

A little off topic:
Spoiler:
lefze wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:03 pm

and fester functionality should be fixed by for example a Rune of Speed proposal.
Meaning increasing the build time decreaser value so it's more meaningful? I always thought just tying it into EA would do the trick.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#16 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:17 pm

dansari wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:15 pm
A little off topic:
Spoiler:
lefze wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:03 pm

and fester functionality should be fixed by for example a Rune of Speed proposal.
Meaning increasing the build time decreaser value so it's more meaningful? I always thought just tying it into EA would do the trick.
Increase value of a single rune of speed, disable stacking with itself when cast by several runies, make it apply AFTER cast time decreasers.

Edit: Wording
Last edited by lefze on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#17 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:31 pm

Word. Interesting concept.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#18 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:03 pm

Except the main complaint you always hear from scout SWs is that enemies usually just run out of your range or LoS you while you cast fester, making it extremely unreliable. Sure AP is a thing, but it seems like that's not the only problem. It's also why literally everyone and their mother is running either Skirmish or Assault focused builds, instead of scout. So, you're vastly overstating the viability of Scout and Fester. Though yeah, I suppose you and dansari are correct, that making a 50% cast time reduction available as often as a 15% proc chance would be a bit over the top.
Last edited by live4treasure on Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#19 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:56 pm

live4treasure wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:03 pm
Except the main complaint you always hear from scout SWs is that enemies usually just run out of your range or LoS you while you cast fester, making it extremely unreliable. Sure AP is a thing, but it seems like that's not the only problem. It's also why literally everyone and their mother is running either Skirmish or Assault focused builds, instead of skirmish. So, you're vastly overstating the viability of Scout and Fester. Though yeah, I suppose you and dansari are correct, that making a 50% cast time reduction available as often as a 15% proc chance would might be a bit over the top.
Why do you think they whine about people running out of fester range?

Right now fester is pretty much the only thing you can do, resolve AP issues and scout can do other things aswell making it worth sticking closer to a target to pressure, instead of being forced to lurk at 110ft until you can cast a fester because you literally can't do anything else. At the point where it's worth staying in 80ish-100ft range the 3 second cast on fester isn't all that bad all of a sudden, as it's no longe the whole spec, just an amazing asset.

And again you assume no one runs scout, I have personally been having a blast with it to the point where I can't play skirmish anymore as the numbers are just so amazing on scout. With a proper party it's semi functional, but you most certainly lack pressure against anyone decent as you can only afford like 2 eagle eyes after a rotation. Still absolutely amazing when the stars align and the guardpunt is perfect and reaction to it is lacking.

Don't understand me wrong though, I do mainly run assault these days and it's amazing in comparison, but scout shouldn't be disregarded completely, doesn't take much to make it a very solid spec.
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Re: [SW] Scout Stance [Close Date June 15]

Post#20 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:28 am

Remove extra AP cost from EE 1 sec cast tactic = Scout tree viable. Easy as that. FA is very good as it is. Same for SH obviously.
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