[Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

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Glorian
Posts: 4369

[Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#1 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:22 am

Currently the Middle Tree Sticky Bomb is a mostly not used Ability.
RoR.builders - Engineer

How it works:
After instant applying it is a 15 sec Dot that explodes at the end of its duration and deals a little Corp Damage to everyone in 20 feet. If the Target dies it explodes too.

Why it is an Issue:
Well you can’t plan with it. 15 Secs is far longer than any fight takes. Especially as it is a Single Target DoT. Some say it is not the Sticky Bomb but you use it to put another dot on the Target, so your other Dots are buried. Well with Incendary, SignalFlare, Frag, Acid, Friction you already have a shitload of Dots. If you have all applied them you can almost start again from the beginning.
Even with the Bombard full buff the duration is reduced to 9 secs. And that is quite too long to have any idea where the end of it should explode.

Proposal:
Make it a little like Sorcs: Vision of Torment. Vison of Torment is some kind of AP Drain with Damage at the end of its 5 sec burning duration. Sorcs do it to make a planned rotation to get some dots on and Cast abilities so most of it hits simultaneously in a short timespan or even on one second.
So Proposal is to keep Damage and general mechanic, but reduce the Duration to 5 secs.
With 5 secs you can plan one rotation on the Target. And if it fails switch to another target.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#2 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:54 pm

Open for discussion. Will be locked in TWO WEEKS from now (21st April).

From my own experience of playing an engineer/magus (Seed of Chaos is the same ability, essentially), the ability is incredibly lackluster given that, on the cover, it seems intended to work as part of a backloaded burst cycle in conjunction with a grenade rotation. Reducing the CD to 5 seconds will make it so that Grenade engineers have a more reliable 'rotation' of sorts that can be used at a faster, more sustained pace.

Having said that, would such a change really make much of an impact, given that the ability itself hits for pretty mediocre damage?
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Sedok
Posts: 121

Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#3 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:56 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:54 pm

Having said that, would such a change really make much of an impact, given that the ability itself hits for pretty mediocre damage?
I'm not sure how possible this suggestion is with both the lack of client control and the difference in game engine, but you can take inspiration from Rift's Saboteur soul:

-Reduce the cooldown of Sticky Bomb to 0 - 3 seconds
-Keep instant cast or add a 1 second cast time
-Increase the damage of the delayed portion by 15-33%
-Allow it to stack up to 3 times on a single target; the duration refreshes which a new application
-Change it so that Sticky Bomb detonates upon the duration ending, the player dying, or the player being hit by Sticky Bomb or Firebomb.

This way the player can prep a large burst by priming a target; the goal being that the Engineer can mix fast-tickings DoTs with an delayed large burst (Grenadier) or add a delayed large burst to AoE spam (Tinkerer).
Live: Karak-Azgal = Sedok, Golgaroth, Sakneth / Karak-Norn = Xnohrx, Alfriger, Volgarn / Vaul's Anvil = Alfriger, Volgarn, Dolgarn


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Reesh
Posts: 639

Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#4 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:09 pm

Changing it to 5s is definitely a way to go.
Regarding the tiny dps output - would it be possible to add a fast ticking dot portion, similar to cleft in twain of a slayer, whilst leaving the explode damage at the end the same?
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Fallenkezef
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Posts: 1394

Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#5 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:02 pm

I'd imagine the best idea would be to change the end result from mediocre damage to either more significant damage (the example of the WH's BAL springs to mind) or change the end "boom" into a snare or ap drain to make it actualy useful?
Alea iacta est

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daniilpb
Posts: 591

Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#6 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:12 pm

Fallenkezef wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:02 pm
I'd imagine the best idea would be to change the end result from mediocre damage to either more significant damage (the example of the WH's BAL springs to mind) or change the end "boom" into a snare or ap drain to make it actualy useful?
Then the question is do you want a quick fix for the skill or a fix that will be implemented only with client control which won't happen in the very near future
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Fallenkezef
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Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#7 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:32 pm

daniilpb wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:12 pm
Fallenkezef wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:02 pm
I'd imagine the best idea would be to change the end result from mediocre damage to either more significant damage (the example of the WH's BAL springs to mind) or change the end "boom" into a snare or ap drain to make it actualy useful?
Then the question is do you want a quick fix for the skill or a fix that will be implemented only with client control which won't happen in the very near future
As I'm not a coder I can not say what solutions can be put in place with or withot client control. I can only contribute to the discussion with ideas to balance the skill in question
Alea iacta est

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Fallenkezef
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Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#8 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:45 pm

We could always try a phased approach? Split the difference and set the duration to 10 seconds. Try that for a month or two then look again to see if 5 seconds is justified.
Alea iacta est

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daniilpb
Posts: 591

Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#9 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:54 pm

Fallenkezef wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:32 pm
daniilpb wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:12 pm
Fallenkezef wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:02 pm
I'd imagine the best idea would be to change the end result from mediocre damage to either more significant damage (the example of the WH's BAL springs to mind) or change the end "boom" into a snare or ap drain to make it actualy useful?
Then the question is do you want a quick fix for the skill or a fix that will be implemented only with client control which won't happen in the very near future
As I'm not a coder I can not say what solutions can be put in place with or withot client control. I can only contribute to the discussion with ideas to balance the skill in question
You just need to stick to plain and simple mechanics so it increases the chances for them to be used.
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Meridin - Sorcerer.
<FusionII>
Ripliel - Shadow Warrior.
Arfi - Swordmaster.
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catholicism198
Posts: 918

Re: [Engi] Sticky Bomb Duration from 15sec to 5sec

Post#10 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:12 pm

Wasn't this already discussed months/years ago? There were some decent suggestions there but it's hard to make suggestions without knowing what can and cannot be done and whether this is being balanced for small scale or large scale....at large scale- the whole "Use it bury your better dots" isn't really valid as there will be tons of dots/debuffs from other players already applied to bury the good dots.

A reduction in CD isn't going to change much and the Bombardment Turret already decreases the tic intervals...the ability is just weak overall and has a major identity crisis- is it single target? is it ae?

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