Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

[roadkillrobin]

Significiantlly increase Disrupt/Dodge from willpower and initiative aswell as Parry from weaponskill and disable the renown abillities that increase these avoidance stats by a flat %.

Keep Block as is.

Make HTL boost will/ini stackeble up to 3 times with itself aswell as any other highest power buff.

[Aurandilaz]

Initial thoughts/brainstorming:

How about mirroring certain DisruptStrikeThrough tactics from Order, BurnThrough (Undefendable Fireball + Pyroclastic Surge) and AM Increased Conductivity (+15% strikethrough on dmg tree abilities, and +10 racial)[but lets not forget poor rdps RP]
Currently 2/7 magical dmg classes (BW, Sorc, Magus, AM, Sham, Zealot, RP) have realistic options to work around high disrupt.

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With 20 renown you get 18% disrupt (one of best rate of return purchase choices right there atm). Assuming competent gameplay, you will be having 3 HoldTheLines buffing you with 45% disrupt. Meaning, assuming you really want to counterplay against enemy magical casters are you quite safe with 63% disrupt. My rr75 Sorc sits at 7% DisruptStrikeThrough from gear. No tactics on that class. Echo of Power hits like a wet noodle and requires Disrupt, so tank blocks are "lol" - it isn't even funny how much better Flashfire+BurnThrough combo is compared to EoP.


The question is, what do Devs have in mind for magical casters? Are some of them just supposed to shine in 1v1 fights (like maybe dps Shaman or dps AM?) - or shine in largescale warband fighting (BW + Sorc aoe spam that doesn't require ST that can block dmg with 1 single Disrupt/Block) spamming abilities that do not require a target hoping that 4/9 or or 5/9 hits lands on enemies successfully.
I am somewhat sure that magical casters were meh-tier before Disrupt changes in 6man scale fights because of DoT dependancy and cleansing power, possible LoS break/use and challenges regarding casting spells whilst trying to remain mobile in fast moving fights - now they are probably even more meh-tier assuming the enemy knows how to play against them, has healers with cleanses, knows to break LoS and can pre-HoT + Guard swap when they see a rotation begin.


Killing/farming unorganized pugs can be achieved on any class, but that seems to be one of the few remaining niches left for magical casters.

On mdps, if you occasionally get some ability parried by enemy, you will still be doing autoattack on same second and next attack lands 1.2 sec later anyway with next GCD. Say in 12 second of fight, you lose 3-5 abilities to parry/block. Doesn't totally ruin the fight, since you probably land lot of AA and enough many instacast spells/melee stuff lands anyway.
But on magical dps, in a ~12 sec fight having 3-5 spells Disrupted very likely means a kill not achieved especially if the spells that fail were the big long cast requiring ones on which you were counting on dealing the biggest burst load.

[live4treasure]

The way disrupt was before felt more satisfying to play, in general. But atm, since disrupt is a 360 degree defense and getting deft defender is a no-brainer for pretty much any class, magic dps classes often find themselves disrupted by pretty much any class unless they've got like best in slot gear.

I don't think that saying that melee dps has weapon skill as a stat and magic dps doesn't have a stat that reduces resistances is an actual argument towards anything, because magic dps tends to have massive burst damage.

What I'd suggest:

Make staves count as a 2h weapon for magic damage and give it a base 10% strikethrough.

Not sure how difficult or easy that is to implement compared to whatever else was suggested above, but this is an easy fix that doesn't require hours of testing and fine-tuning of formulas. It works for 2h weapons for melee dps, so it's probably not going to be broken with magic dps as well. If it proves to be too strong, well you can always just decrease the %

[Panzerkasper]

Spoiler:

Significiantlly increase Disrupt/Dodge from willpower and initiative aswell as Parry from weaponskill and disable the renown abillities that increase these avoidance stats by a flat %.

Keep Block as is.

Make HTL boost will/ini stackeble up to 3 times with itself aswell as any other highest power buff.

This!

No +1s

[Tesq]

Significiantlly increase Disrupt/Dodge from willpower and initiative aswell as Parry from weaponskill and disable the renown abillities that increase these avoidance stats by a flat %.

Keep Block as is.

Make HTL boost will/ini stackeble up to 3 times with itself aswell as any other highest power buff.

while i do sympathise with this, hell that would definetly mean a crit rebalance for good or badder idk ....just it will happen... idk if it could be a too major shake....

also poor we/wh if that happen.....try use full ini from renown basically their stelth is not working on you anymore

[M0rw47h]

I would reduce disrupt %chance overall and make resistances easier to stack (a bit higher cap). This way magical abilities would hit more often, but for less and CCs would be more reliable.

[Darosh]

Besides the caster v healer issue, its fine as is, imho.

It takes one (or more, depending on how glassy the ally is) competent tanks to get a dps' range avoidance to a meaningful level, with that said the current iteration rewards proper HtL-dancing and made it viable in small scale and 3/2/1 setups; it doesn't require a full HtL line to get tangible returns, as it works post-application of dots.
As far as RvR is concerned... you can miss 9/10 of times, if just two skills connects you'll still instagib the lv23ish mdps you were targetting.

The returns from avoidance gained through RR is now on par with the investment - 18% is fine and dandy, but it certainly does not - and of course shouldn't, as per common sense - turn people into rdps-immune hulks without being complemented by actual team efforts (e.g.: HtL, wp-buffs, ...) and/or additional investments.
The current iteration essentially introduced defensive checks for rdps comparable to those of mdps (besides, again, on healer, which is undoubtly an issue, and outside of [organized] large scale RvR), if you account for what is necessary on the respective archetypes to apply the pressure and the risk:reward/investment/teamplay aspects that come with it.

TLDR: Healer (in all formats), organized large scale, 6v6 = issues a plenty. Luckily its hardcore pugplay/farm or bust, so all good.

[Telen]

The current iteration essentially introduced defensive checks for rdps comparable to those of mdps

Mdps can just bypass avoidance entirely by moving to the side.

[Khrum]

Maybe tie this to armour class/statistic

light armour higher disrupt as is vulnerable against melee damage so have all ready here counter and nemesis while caster vs caster still keep good balance

medium/heavy armour lower disrupt as is more immune to melee damage

this can be perhaps done thru debuff to disrupt stats by 1% less for each 100 points in armour above 2k?

[Wam]

Well you probally can't yet without the patcher

but new renown abilities for strike through %?

With the removal of Resoulte defence and evasion being strong of course healers will max it because there is only so many viable choices for rr spent...

If dps could spend renown for something to counter high disrupt (no idea the renown cost... % gain per a level that would be for number crunchers to figure out what is fair and balanced)

or maybe a self buff renown abilitiy for limited period of time for improved strike through then long cooldown.

Although i think it's not as bad as people make out and that the status quo is okay... it depends what enviroment are we mostly talking, because one change effects all enviroments... I see plenty of good RDPS ST sorc/bw's get kills in ORVR so if disrupt was a problem they would get alot less kills?