Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

[lefze]

I like too wargrimnir's proposal, however I think that it should also follow a "rearrangement" of initiative values across the board. By this I don't necessarely mean a rebalance of gear stat (it would be a mess), but maybe the base ini level of each class, as others have already stated (maybe tie it with armor-tier: heavy armor=low ini, medium armor=medium ini, light armour=high ini, WH/WE should have the highest base value for obvious reason: stealth).

It's kinda tiered like that already in certain cases. If anything I'd wanna see the exact opposite figure, where sorcs/BWs would have to invest in initiative to reach 300+ and tanks don't struggle with getting decent levels.

The only thing I can see needing a tweak is stealth detection, stealth classes would get pretty shafted if everyone began running around in 300-400 initiative.

[SmackdownNinja]

The disrupt problem started with defensive stat change. Specifically with willpower stat. I think the simplest way to allievate this would be tone back the amount of disrupt that can be gained through WP. This will allow casters to have an easier times against healers. But we must also remember why it was changed in the first place.
Sense the beginning of this game RDPS has reigned supreme simply because they could burst down people at range. This could go in with a risk/reward type gameplay. MDPS should have a greater a reward for the increased risk and with RDPS it should be the opposite. For balancing its always better to take baby steps so we don't have another discussion like this a couple weeks later.
TL/DR- simply tone back the amount of avoidance that defensive stats give and allow the community to test it for a couple weeks to see the issues have been fixed. Then from there we can finely tune it. Any large changes can cause even more more problems down the road. Thank you everyone for taking the time to read this.

[sogeou]

That or make having more INT past 1100 INT give tons of strike thru. Then it will make people go all out on being glass cannon.

If you're a low intel hybrid class you cant counter the high will avoidance or dont have strikethrough then you have no gameplay way to counter cheap %based rr avoidance. Intel only goes against willpower not base avoidance. Melee classes arent forced to spec against avoidance, while it will decrease their damage they can still bypass via flanking. Intel giving strikethrough was meant to be the caster equivalence to melees ability to bypass avoidance. It wasnt a great design choice by Mythic putting both damage and strikethrough on the same stat.

The lower the base from willpower, the more it will help you. The system just needs a tweak, so the base gives 15% then stack that with the RR disrupt and it is not as bad. The problem is all this gear people are getting which has tons of disrupt on it along with another good stat like int or tough.

[sogeou]

The disrupt problem started with defensive stat change. Specifically with willpower stat. I think the simplest way to allievate this would be tone back the amount of disrupt that can be gained through WP. This will allow casters to have an easier times against healers. But we must also remember why it was changed in the first place.
Sense the beginning of this game RDPS has reigned supreme simply because they could burst down people at range. This could go in with a risk/reward type gameplay. MDPS should have a greater a reward for the increased risk and with RDPS it should be the opposite. For balancing its always better to take baby steps so we don't have another discussion like this a couple weeks later.
TL/DR- simply tone back the amount of avoidance that defensive stats give and allow the community to test it for a couple weeks to see the issues have been fixed. Then from there we can finely tune it. Any large changes can cause even more more problems down the road. Thank you everyone for taking the time to read this.

THIS 100% Nothing else should be changed. This should be the fix.

[Cimba]

They are very vulnerable against DPS applied by melee. This is what I meant. No doubt they are hard to catch ...

I think what you're trying to say is that they're weak against physical dps due to lower armor values. But since there are physical range dps that argument doesnt hold too much weight.
Which is more or less my point: This whole rock-paper-scissors model of rdps vs melee vs healer vs tank has so many exceptions that it doesnt really function.

The only thing I can see needing a tweak is stealth detection, stealth classes would get pretty shafted if everyone began running around in 300-400 initiative.

From my personal experience I dont think this is a huge issue. I'm sitting with my BW at 330 ini unbuffed so at about 380 with basic runi buff. To be honest I dont think I see that much more than my mates who sit at 250 ini unbuffed. WE still sneak up on me the large majority of the time.

[Tesq]

They are very vulnerable against DPS applied by melee. This is what I meant. No doubt they are hard to catch ...

I think what you're trying to say is that they're weak against physical dps due to lower armor values. But since there are physical range dps that argument doesnt hold too much weight.
Which is more or less my point: This whole rock-paper-scissors model of rdps vs melee vs healer vs tank has so many exceptions that it doesnt really function.

The only thing I can see needing a tweak is stealth detection, stealth classes would get pretty shafted if everyone began running around in 300-400 initiative.

From my personal experience I dont think this is a huge issue. I'm sitting with my BW at 330 ini unbuffed so at about 380 with basic runi buff. To be honest I dont think I see that much more than my mates who sit at 250 ini unbuffed. WE still sneak up on me the large majority of the time.

i tried with 430, i saw every wh around me, but thats the less of the issue; the check can anyway be tweekm what bother it's that stack ini would be very much efficent;

For exemple crit redution+ dodge; squig/sw are the most responsable for rdps snares throw at you if you add this with a way to deal with crits and improve anyway wh/we stealth check then yuo have a pretty clear stats winner.

because crit reduciton work vs everything so while you loose disrupt you gain crit reduction which bw/sorc dmg is based around.
if you get less snare you kite easier (this cna be translate as have dmg mitigation x sec to some extent)

[Scrilian]

Hopefully the opening post in the new thread will explain why the original defense mechanics were suddenly changed overnight into the current "on-tic" version in regards to dot damage.

[Telen]

Hopefully the opening post in the new thread will explain why the original defense mechanics were suddenly changed overnight into the current "on-tic" version in regards to dot damage.

They werent changed. Change would be going from on hit to on tic. They now have a second avoidance check. Thats the issue. Going through 2 18% avoidance checks before damage is the equivilent of a third of all damage wiped out before you even come up against easier reaction healing/absorbs, easier reaction pots hots more effective compared to vs dd and cleanse that dd doesnt. I wasnt playing when the change came in but I looked back at the patch notes and plenty of players pointed out that its a second check not a change.

[Tesq]

idk the stats fix seems prettry straight forward it just give like a little 6% to disrupt only on healers, while the passive disrup on dots was a massive change;

compared to live where dodge (bug) only works in front of you, rdps here are even more hitted from that patch; not particulary pro /contr just saying that when i red that patch note i was

WOHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA This gona change a lot of stuff

The difference became huge enough to reconsider a lot of things. Maybe problems which there were in class balances were made more evident by these changes

anyway another base stuff: one of the main thing about rdps in this game is that they function well enough when there is a solid front line either via pressure or either via bodyblock or a mix between em. That's also something which make hard balance small scale; well with dok/wp be able to stand again a bit more in the front is again do-able screen ppl.
Proof cna be seen in the difference of fight between 12 man sc and 18 man sc as battle of praagm there the rdp have more body to screen em in front line; on 12 ppl it is extremly hard balance a sc for every play stile because the crowd allow it easily.

[Cimba]

i tried with 430, i saw every wh around me, but thats the less of the issue; the check can anyway be tweekm what bother it's that stack ini would be very much efficent;

For exemple crit redution+ dodge; squig/sw are the most responsable for rdps snares throw at you if you add this with a way to deal with crits and improve anyway wh/we stealth check then yuo have a pretty clear stats winner.

because crit reduciton work vs everything so while you loose disrupt you gain crit reduction which bw/sorc dmg is based around.
if you get less snare you kite easier (this cna be translate as have dmg mitigation x sec to some extent)

Yeah true that crit reduction works against everyone. Which is why you currently see it as a trend to stack massive amounts of crit reduction. You can pretty accurately calculate when futile strikes becomes more cost-effective than initiative in terms of renown points investment. That point is around 140 to 150. You add on top the common 100-120 ini debuffs and you end up with the common 250-260 which has been floating around the forum as a decent initiative value. And its pretty ineffective to go beyond e.g. going from 250 ini to 350 reduces your chance to be hit by 4% at level 40. But 100 stats is a massive investments.

Now you're telling me that rdps snares are the deciding factor why Initiative is a good stat to stack? I mean seriously a rdps snares you in two situations a) he wants to run b) you want to run away. In both situations the fight is kind of over.