Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD

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Panzerkasper
Posts: 548

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#81 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:34 pm

I would prefer option 2.

I would rather have the possibility to switch targets faster, then having an undefendable dot. In my eyes flexibility > damage potential.
Also I think magus with potential 4(?) undefendable skills is a bit too much.
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I don't discuss Warband size gameplay, it's impossible to balance.
Not that the balance is already garbage.

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Renork
Posts: 1212

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#82 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:53 pm

dansari wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:26 pm
Any change should have viable counterplay, and I'm not sure of anything that's uncleansable besides specific damaging abilities or morales and imo it should be kept that way
110% Agree. Honestly, the responses on this thread are mostly goofy. So reducing the CD or making it undefendable would break the class (according to the people who do not even play the class), but making it uncleansable is better...?(so you are stuck with 15% damage for the 20 seconds without any of your healers being able to cleanse it off, um ok?).

This is why undocumented changes are made behind the scenes by the staff. The amount of unnecessary whiners and 'doomsday' prophets that come out in every balance thread is ridiculous to say the least. Look at all the exaggerated whining that was done on the previous patch notes thread regarding the dok/wp/wl changes. We're pretty lucky to have a balance forum even active.

If anyone knows the magus class, it's definitely Peter. You are all also forgetting they CAN revert changes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking experimental approaches and the two listed on this thread are by no means game breaking and very on point.

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witchdoctor
Posts: 104

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#83 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:24 pm

Renork wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:53 pm
dansari wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:26 pm
Any change should have viable counterplay, and I'm not sure of anything that's uncleansable besides specific damaging abilities or morales and imo it should be kept that way
110% Agree. Honestly, the responses on this thread are mostly goofy. So reducing the CD or making it undefendable would break the class (according to the people who do not even play the class), but making it uncleansable is better...?(so you are stuck with 15% damage for the 20 seconds without any of your healers being able to cleanse it off, um ok?).
I agree.. but people are here to discuss their opinion, and yea some of the are "goofy". And nobody here would cry when this get patched. But when we were not allowed to post our opinions then it wouldn't be called "DISCUSSIONS" :roll: :geek:

That uncleansable thing is done i know but just for Renork, would it be much worse than a 10s cooldown? 2 healers in a party can cleanse 6 dots in 10s... good luck to get the right one befor it comes up again with 10s cooldown ;D...
Magus has alot dots :D

dansari
Posts: 2460

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#84 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:34 pm

witchdoctor wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:24 pm
That uncleansable thing is done i know but just for Renork, would it be much worse than a 10s cooldown?
Yes because it provides no counterplay. Only proactive praying to rngesus you don't get tagged with it in the first place.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#85 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:35 pm

Whispering Winds SM in the group = spammable AOE cleanse from WP = GG Magus dots.

Just as an aside to all: noone is suggesting that people shouldn't be allowed to participate in balance discussions, but if you are going to make sweeping statements that you haven't backed up - statements concerning a class/tactic/whatever that you haven't tried in environments where people are playing competently - do not be surprised if feedback is taken with a pinch of salt.
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Renork
Posts: 1212

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#86 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:37 pm

Spoiler:
witchdoctor wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:24 pm
Renork wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:53 pm
dansari wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:26 pm
Any change should have viable counterplay, and I'm not sure of anything that's uncleansable besides specific damaging abilities or morales and imo it should be kept that way
110% Agree. Honestly, the responses on this thread are mostly goofy. So reducing the CD or making it undefendable would break the class (according to the people who do not even play the class), but making it uncleansable is better...?(so you are stuck with 15% damage for the 20 seconds without any of your healers being able to cleanse it off, um ok?).
I agree.. but people are here to discuss their opinion, and yea some of the are "goofy". And nobody here would cry when this get patched. But when we were not allowed to post our opinions then it wouldn't be called "DISCUSSIONS" :roll: :geek:

That uncleansable thing is done i know but just for Renork, would it be much worse than a 10s cooldown? 2 healers in a party can cleanse 6 dots in 10s... good luck to get the right one befor it comes up again with 10s cooldown ;D...
Magus has alot dots :D
There's a difference between providing an opinion/feedback with sustainable evidence or holding a conversation that has substance versus 'lol no class is good, ur all angry casters'. The latter being more **** posting than opinion.
Try to avoid omniquoting and let's keep it relevant to topic!

Like Dansari said, making it uncleansable makes it so that the ability would have no counterplay, which is something that would be more detrimental than making it undefendable (you do realize it is STILL on a 20s CD right?) or lowering the CD to 10s.

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witchdoctor
Posts: 104

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#87 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:12 pm

Spoiler:
I didnt say anything like that...
i Told that MOSTLY range dps has most kills (NO RDPS are not OP) so it cannot be that bad with dodge /disrupt

When dansari say, uncleansable = no good, i accept that...
When ptp3 say SM with WW and all his dots are gone i accept that and say: get a BO so the cooldown of the dot drops to 15s :lol:

But i cannot accept when you tell, that everyone posting something here is goofy,
and your next words are about: "Conversations with substance"^^ :mrgreen: ^

Where's the substance in there?
Don't go off on a tangent. If you feel someone is deliberately misinterpreting your comments, then rest assured it will be picked upon.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#88 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:16 pm

No more going off on tangents. Won't say it again. Goes for all.
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Renork
Posts: 1212

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#89 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:26 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:16 pm
No more going off on tangents. Won't say it again. Goes for all.
You're right. Sorry peter <3

anarchypark
Posts: 1283

Re: Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD[Close Date Apr 21]

Post#90 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:35 pm

Spoiler:
anarchypark wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:16 am
Renork wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:15 pm
Spoiler:
anarchy-park wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:46 pm
my point is great skill need more than normal drawback.
you think it has serious drawback.
I'm saying drawback is on right level.
15% dmg+ from all sources,
from long range rdps.
can't you see the OPness in here?

and ofc archetype is relevant.
don't be the choppa hitting deftard tank.
casters hitting healer is somewhat similar.
that's the new thing.

You keep mentioning disrupt so i have to bring that up again.
I gave you range VS 20% avoidance theory.
not sure what devs think but that's quite convincing mechanic.
rdps got restrains now.
not many casters have accepted new concept yet.
they're still at anger or bargaining stage of loss i think.

how about prove your case with actual number of disrupt rate against various targets?
( cuz 20s/20s + tactic slot is hardly a drawback. It's just price )
not comparing with old mechanic
and not backed up by angry casters.
their whine will bury your valid point( if there is any )
I'm trying to still understand why you think this is 'overpowered'. It would be phenomenal if you could share your experience with the class itself and inform everyone here how you use it and why exactly would making this change make your rotation and contribution to your group and/or warband so extremely overpowered. The class has always had this tactic and truth be told the real issue here is the disrupt rate, but since that is not changing any time soon, then Peter provided a good proposal to circumvent the problem. Based on your responses it does not sound like you play the class at all.
Spoiler:
assist MA. use skill from a far. watch WE, choppa, SH, sorc, 2h tank deal 15% more dmg for 20s. mask it with other spammable skills.
effectiveness escalates more and more with bigger numbers. masking's getting easier.
Actually, the more numbers you bring, the less effective a 15% damage buff is. If you have 100 people fighting, a 15% damage buff ON ONE TARGET that requires a tactic slot becomes almost meaningless - due to the fast rate at which people will be dying anyway.
Spoiler:
did i miss disrupt?
though i don't have problem with disrupt,
i would've heavily invested on strikethrough and avoided healer.
So your solution is to avoid healers? Have you tested strikethrough? Have you seen the posts of people who have spec'd heavily into strikethrough who have reported on the relatively-low gains (I cite Aurandiliaz as one)? I am inclined to think the answer is no for both.
Spoiler:
have anyone tested it?
waiting your feedback.
Have you also tested your claims that a 15% damage buff is overperforming? I have, as have many others, and that is why your accusations of it overperforming are moot: there has never been a single complaint about the Engi/Magus 15% damage tactics, given both realms have access to them, that they require a tactic slot, and that both can be cleansed. - ptp3
whines or silence means little.
show me your test number.
your % of strikethrough, target's disrupt % on character sheet.
hit 100 times and result. just any spammable skill would be ok.

i assume result would be simple +- of each %.
but hard proof better.
you don't need lecture why you should do it first, right?

it would've been much easier if you'd provided that info from the first place.
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BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE5, Ch6, Magi7, Mara6, Ze6, BO3, SH4, Shm5
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( last update : 2018.10.26)

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