Daemonic Withering/Coordinated Fire - Undefendable/Reduced CD

[anarchypark]

Spoiler:

my point is great skill need more than normal drawback.
you think it has serious drawback.
I'm saying drawback is on right level.
15% dmg+ from all sources,
from long range rdps.
can't you see the OPness in here?

and ofc archetype is relevant.
don't be the choppa hitting deftard tank.
casters hitting healer is somewhat similar.
that's the new thing.

You keep mentioning disrupt so i have to bring that up again.
I gave you range VS 20% avoidance theory.
not sure what devs think but that's quite convincing mechanic.
rdps got restrains now.
not many casters have accepted new concept yet.
they're still at anger or bargaining stage of loss i think.

how about prove your case with actual number of disrupt rate against various targets?
( cuz 20s/20s + tactic slot is hardly a drawback. It's just price )
not comparing with old mechanic
and not backed up by angry casters.
their whine will bury your valid point( if there is any )

I'm trying to still understand why you think this is 'overpowered'. It would be phenomenal if you could share your experience with the class itself and inform everyone here how you use it and why exactly would making this change make your rotation and contribution to your group and/or warband so extremely overpowered. The class has always had this tactic and truth be told the real issue here is the disrupt rate, but since that is not changing any time soon, then Peter provided a good proposal to circumvent the problem. Based on your responses it does not sound like you play the class at all.

Spoiler:

assist MA. use skill from a far. watch WE, choppa, SH, sorc, 2h tank deal 15% more dmg for 20s. mask it with other spammable skills.
effectiveness escalates more and more with bigger numbers. masking's getting easier.

Actually, the more numbers you bring, the less effective a 15% damage buff is. If you have 100 people fighting, a 15% damage buff ON ONE TARGET that requires a tactic slot becomes almost meaningless - due to the fast rate at which people will be dying anyway.

Spoiler:

did i miss disrupt?
though i don't have problem with disrupt,
i would've heavily invested on strikethrough and avoided healer.

So your solution is to avoid healers? Have you tested strikethrough? Have you seen the posts of people who have spec'd heavily into strikethrough who have reported on the relatively-low gains (I cite Aurandiliaz as one)? I am inclined to think the answer is no for both.

Spoiler:

have anyone tested it?
waiting your feedback.

Have you also tested your claims that a 15% damage buff is overperforming? I have, as have many others, and that is why your accusations of it overperforming are moot: there has never been a single complaint about the Engi/Magus 15% damage tactics, given both realms have access to them, that they require a tactic slot, and that both can be cleansed. - ptp3

[Bozzax]

Yep no magus or engie ever made a serious 6man so it has been tested. The spam hdebuff of SH for example is far more effective when paird with a MRD then a cleansable 20s cool down “poor mans hdebuff” (+15% damage).

All other dps allows for faster target switching which makes them way better picks for a group. Melee typically are best at target switching (quickest) and this is one of the reasons to go melee train (or melee/SH/SW). Getting those juicy +15% more damage means you miss out on abilities such FO, heal debuffs, EW, Grim slash.

Regarding undef, so you guys think more Magus abilities should be made undef by the same logic? I can se undef is pushed now as a band aid in most caster proposals.

E: The 20s CD of Manic obsession / obsessive focus is never used either since it blocks all forms of assist / target switching

[roadkillrobin]

Making more ranged skills undefendeble is gonna reduce effectivness of melee dps in the game. One of the reasons to bring mdps is to bypass defences of stacking HTL, especially in large scale.

If anything there should be less ranged undefendeble skills in the game not more.

[Tesq]

Making more ranged skills undefendeble is gonna reduce effectivness of melee dps in the game. One of the reasons to bring mdps is to bypass defences of stacking HTL, especially in large scale.

If anything there should be less ranged undefendeble skills in the game not more.

well, look at it

-it is ST
-it gona have a high cd so no target swap
-it gona be cleansable
-is not a dmg skill -> which mean alone cannot kill something addind raw dmg, it something which need to be used in combination with other stuff, increasing rotation lenght (think about like and IB/BG st buff for whole group, which is till inferior because they could all do aoe and that woudl buff group aoe dmg which is not goign to happen being a debuff).

atm the skill + tactic combo have multiple weakness

1-clenseable
2-need to hit
3-high CD /impossible use it efficently in target swap
4-require a tactic slot (with out tactic slot you dont even use the skill is wasted ap)

*regarding skill per se the problem here is not the tactic , the tactic is good it is the skill which suck, the tactic should remain as it is the the solution prospected here for the tactic should be just applied to the skill itself, because that is were the problem lay this is the umpteemth dot in your rotation which you just gona skip because it's better use ap for more substantial things which your rotation really need + can be reapply if miss/cleansed. The combo is underperforming and the skill per se is not even get used so both main tactic's skill should receve one of these solutions imo that way the tactic will get use anyway if the skill is worth but it also open other build choice /customization.


-if cd to be balanced need to be tied to skill power/efficency then it need to be either way as in proposal: 10 sec cd requirement and require you to hit or undefeatable with 20 sec CD, so what will happen is just removing one of those 2 weakness.
-If there has to be discrimination in application in one of those case as said above , since engi gona basically always see it land on the target, then solution 2 must go imo and solution 1 have to be use.

[dansari]

I get why people are exaggerating by saying "bullets will never be dodged" and "magic will always be disrupted" but it's simply not true. Disrupt rates are high, but dodge and block both exist as well.

[CptPiggy]

Spoiler:

I agree that it should have shorter cd like 10 sec what I dont get it that Lords can clense so often the dots. Im grenadier engi when i put all my dots he clenses before I finish them casting, also how can you dodge a dot that is already on you, I can understand you can disrupt but cmon dodge napalm that is already on you? seriously this mechanic is broken. grenadier engies does little dmg compared tisniper on lord because either the lord clenses your skills or he just dodges them. atleast the sniper engi has to deal only with dodge.

Started off with some substance, but then you went off on a tangent about Lords? Keep it relevant. - ptp3

[witchdoctor]

Spoiler:

I just dont get it... every second post is about disrupt/dodge is so hard atm for rangers. Most of the time BW/SW or Sorc/SH have most kills in a zone

I can top kills in the zone on a DPS WP vs unorganised/low levels. Thankfully, we don't have balance discussions centered around such encounters; this pertains to the tactic vs competent players.

Spoiler:

But back to the topic. you want to punish people, investing renown points or pick special sets to push dodge disrupt. fact!
Cuz engi and Magus still have other things to kill people next to their pets buffing 40% dmg^^

Any substance to back your claim that Magus has something other than, y'know - his normal abilities - to kill people? And the aim isn't to punish people for investing in D/D: if you had bothered to read, you would have seen that we have accepted D/D current iteration.

Spoiler:

And lets be honnest. when that would be patched, in solution 1 or 2, doesnt matter. Then i promise you next will be by example BW's and sorcs. They will tell you,"hey i'm using 1 tactic for 1 skill only too" (BB or WoP) And then they want it undefendable too.

Nothing empirical here, we're just gonna rely on word of mouth I guess?

I understand your problem, 1 tactic for a skill with 20s cooldown... oke but solution 1 or 2 are to heavy...
How about, that skill is with tactic not cleansable? so if it's not disruped,
you will have the dmg buff from tactic the whole time^^^
But you wouldnt punish people that way, which spend renown points in dodge disrupt^^

At last! Something that pertains to the topic (a decent alternate solution. now expand on pros/cons). Less of the hyperbole. - ptp3

[daniilpb]

They will tell you,"hey i'm using 1 tactic for 1 skill only too" (BB or WoP) And then they want it undefendable too.

BB’s and WoP’s damage ticks are already undefendable lul

[witchdoctor]

They will tell you,"hey i'm using 1 tactic for 1 skill only too" (BB or WoP) And then they want it undefendable too.

BB’s and WoP’s damage ticks are already undefendable lul

*facepalm* Did i talk about undefendable TICKs? LUL

[dansari]

Any change should have viable counterplay, and I'm not sure of anything that's uncleansable besides specific damaging abilities or morales and imo it should be kept that way