[Shaman] Pass It On

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Bozzax
Posts: 1999

[Shaman] Pass It On

Post#1 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:49 am

Issue
The Pass It On tactic has no signifficant value when it comes to healing and no one uses it (should use it).

Not even when you go "full ham healing" forfeiting all the (shaman) class defining tactics to squeeze some more healing out there is no room for PIO.

Why is this an issue

What makes Pass It On so bad?
"Low chance" to trigger ties usage of this tactic closely to spamming group heals in order to get some kind of reasonable output from PIO. Spamming stationary slow group heals as a Shaman isn't really an effective way to heal.

If PIO triggers the extra heal ends up being an over heal most of the time since it triggers directly after a big group heal (There is so much fail in a DH triggering of a big AOE DH).

Since you can't direct PIO in it being 100% random these extra heals typically heal something that weren't being focused anyway (which has almost no value).

Only positive I've found is that it can be used to trigger a few more RBs (if I remember correctly).

Proposed change
Here are some ideas:

A. Change PIO to be a % virus spread for all Shaman hots (% to "infect" 20feet on tic all Shaman hots)
B. Change PIO to give DSU "leaping alteration" (30feet, 6 charges)
C. Change PIO to HOT making it less of an over heal
D. Change PIO effect to trigger on "an ally 20feet" from the shmy friendly target (keep DH)
E. Change PIO to a % to trigger a DH "on ally 20feet" on all hot ticks (from host)


E: Personally I've always felt Shmy mostly lacked an AOE hot to get a more stable base line when kiting and a bit less pressure on your AP-pool. (Especially now when kniggits don't wreck you)
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

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Penril
Posts: 4443

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#2 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:55 pm

Moving to Discussions.

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Nameless
Posts: 730

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#3 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:33 pm

Easiest solution is to make pio to proc from hots ticks aswell (or at least dsu ticks)
It will still be super random and most will be overheal but it will proc more frequintly which will make it more usefull.
Beside that I like very much option b. Prolly pio tactic should add 5 sec cd on dsu becouse it seems quite good.
Either way pio should boost shaman hots capacity. After all shaman class is suppose to be hot oriented healer but rest of the healera got pretty similar hot capabilities compared to gobbos
Mostly harmless

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Fey
Posts: 373

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#4 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:31 pm

There are seven path of Mork abilities which in theory could proc the tactic if it worked off of hot ticks. PIO says nothing of direct heals, so it seems obvious to me that it should behave as such. Fix it and re-evaluate if it is overperforming.
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freshour
Banned
Posts: 835

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#5 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:59 pm

Question about tactic possibility that his option A combined with C gave me. (sidenote)
Spoiler:
Is it possible to have pass it on go to whichever friendly in X radius with the lowest HP? His option A as "virus spread" made this come into my mind. Furthermore his option C - made me wonder if a dynamic HoT for this tactic is possible? As in it heals for x% based on % of remaining HP. IE it would function as a virus spread type of heal that would do more at lower HP pools?

I am in no way trying to take over this thread yet more expanding on a possible idea as I believe it would give this tactic a niche and the ability to be combined with other tactics that are not currently much use such as "ain't done yet"? Idk - diversity in a class that has so many "potential" niches just made me want to ask that.
To the OP -

A - it seems very interesting - however you are looking to make this feat more viable. Viability and reliability seem to go hand in hand most of the time. So while this option adds a chance to be great - I think it might get passed up for something that is always there.
B - I like this idea as well - but Zealots that I know of generally pass this up for more reliable heals and leaping alteration in itself is a niche heal for odd filler moments - so awesome idea - but might still get passed up.
C - I think this could work if it was a HoT that was not a static number being that if a zealot (all destro healers are paired with zealot) - it would increase if he used a blessing - or if you had "ain't done yet" and they were taken below 25% this HoT would increase - then it becomes more of a possible option?

- I concur with what you said that the class feels it might be missing an AOE HoT type of feeling. DoK's have it (they are more of an AOE healing class) - Zealots have their aura (sure most use AP, but still) - Shamans had an AOE feel during .Ex mode - but I think you are on the right track with this line of thinking.

@fey -
Spoiler:
I agree that if it could work off the abilities/hot ticks - it might be a much more viable tactic - of course testing would be needed to NOT put the shaman back in the "OPOPOPOP" category as it was with .EX mode.
Great idea! I really look forward to see where this discussion goes. Again I was not trying to steal his thread with my initial comments - moreso I was curious on the capabilities on what might be able to be done, furthermore I understand that I should make a new post if I were to be hinting at another change/balance discussion topic.

GO GOBBOS!

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Nameless
Posts: 730

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#6 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:14 am

You could not compare leaping alteration with dsu. The second is much superior and add additional value by toughness buff even when the target is full hp. So conclusions that option b wouldnt be usefull cos zealots didnt use leaping alteration is narrowminded

At past I liked the idea of tactic that increase the healing based on the number of hots shamman got on his target.
For example while you got someone with running 2 hots healing on him is increased by 15%.. if there are 3 hots =30%. If 4 or more 45%.
That way u got reason and meaning to hot up while that had counterplay by ench removers, it is quite ap hungry to maintaine and normaly the windows your target to have +4 hots would be 3-4 second while u spend 4 gcd to prepaire. Just adding additional value to shamans hots, seems fair enought

Ps here I talk only for the hots comming from shaman itself, not all hots on target
Mostly harmless

Shing
Posts: 23

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#7 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:06 am

I don't consider 25 % chance to proc "low" considering how it takes into account group heals and should for hots given the description.

Do you have any numbers on what percentage of your healing is it doing currently? How much healing are you hoping for a tactic to contribute to overall healing anyway? 1%, 5%, 15%?

I agree that shammys are lacking aoe healing capability, but given their kiting ability, adding more mobile heals seems problematic.

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Ugle
Posts: 483

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#8 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:29 pm

When healing a tight melee train under heavy pressure PIO is decent effective heal buff and synergizes pretty good with aoe heal. Other than that, it is useless in current version
Ugle - SW | Amoebas - AM | Amoeba - SM
Gief - SH | Sidathex - WE | Pnzr - BO
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Bozzax
Posts: 1999

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#9 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:58 pm

Personally I rate core ADY, RB, GC’, ESM and DIS above 13pts PIO random overheal.

Not to mention RA!, WBY?! Even possibly GIO and the two morale tacs.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

Penril
Posts: 4443

Re: [Shaman] Pass It On tactic

Post#10 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:22 pm

Time to lock.

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