[Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#41 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:02 pm

Torquemadra wrote:
th3gatekeeper wrote: Torq, are the auras not on the table for a potential rework that could potentially move Chosen/KOBS from "best performing classes" to "good classes"? If so, it stands to reason that we should be balancing in light of where you want the class to head, rather than just "where it is today". What I mean by that is if its in the cards that you will make these auras require more management, maybe less uptime, or less overall impact (such as making them maybe ST debuffs instead of AOE, etc). Then we should be looking at some of these lack luster abilities (like Relentless + MF) in light of a potential aura rework... Otherwise there is no point in even discussing this stuff until that happens first.
Yes and no, thats not a concern for you per se but a crap ability is a crap ability, the problem comes when it further accentuates a distance and builds on the already existing over performing part of a class.
th3gatekeeper wrote:Moving to tier 3, allows you to be justified in buffing this ability to compete with SM/BO. Now you dont need to grayscale, and you dont need to mess with other tactics and what not... Its the "KISS" solution IMO (Keep it Simple, Stupid).
Moving it to tier 3 and buffing the damage and not locking to greatweapon isnt going to happen, at all, I thought I was pretty clear on this. My tanks all run dps, BG, BO, SM, IB, all use a 2hander, my knight however uses a shield because the benefit to cost ratio is too great not to and Shield bearers, who mitigate part of the argument against the channel of no AA by not relying on AA isnt going to be placed further out in front.
I feel ya man, im not trying to be a **** at all. Quite the opposite.

I just dont undersand what build a SNB Knight would run if they were to get this?! If you want Vigilance (which is arguably the best KOBS ability you have) then you are going full Vigilance tree to get it. Then you will forsure rock Dirty Tricks right? And Smashing Counter. All those are "no brainers".

So if Myrm is swapped with Staggering Impact. How the hell you gonna get Myrm if its tier 3 Mastery? It requires 14 points right? I dont think you have enough for all that... Maybe at RR80? Maybe I did my math wrong...

I thought that by putting it up there, it was no accessible unless you gave up Vigilance, or DT, or SC... Which are all more important than a ST damager...

Ontop of that, you are also giving up putting points in Path of Glory to boost your "Gather your Resolve!" which is costing precious resist buff/debuffs.

So it seems even if you wanted to grab this thing... you have to give up ALOT for it (resists + KD or DT) to get it...

Unless I am missing something.

I mean shoot, if you are that worried about it and I am overlooking something then make it 2H only... I got no qualms with that. Thats basically what I am saying anyways - I dont ever see a SNB person getting this ANYWAYS. But I could be wrong. If that is the sticking point, do it. You wont hear any complaints about it, nobody uses it anyways.
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Penril
Posts: 4443

Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#42 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:04 pm

Vigilance is only good for soloing/PvE. There are much better specs for group play (and we balance for group play).

I do agree though, that I don't really see any SnB KotBS/Chosen getting these skills.

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GodlessCrom
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Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#43 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:10 pm

Penril wrote:Vigilance is only good for soloing/PvE. There are much better specs for group play.

I do agree though, that I don't really see any SnB KotBS/Chosen getting these skills.
? Vigilance is one of the best defensive cooldowns in the game. Moreover, there is nothing worth getting high up in the other trees.

EDIT: i also dont think any snb knights will grab this skill but make it 2h only anyways I suppose
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

Penril
Posts: 4443

Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#44 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:17 pm

This is a much better group spec than anything with Vigilance: http://www.ror.builders/career/knight-o ... 09,3093&t=

KotBS can already be super tanky. Bad players will waste their time focusing you, and good players will focus you last (after your group is dead). It is awesome for solo play though, and I can also see it shine in zergbusting.

So yeah, I don't see how any decent SnB KotBS would grab Myrmidia's Fury over that spec.

Tankbeardz
Posts: 551

Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#45 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:37 pm

Penril wrote:This is a much better group spec than anything with Vigilance: http://www.ror.builders/career/knight-o ... 09,3093&t=

KotBS can already be super tanky. Bad players will waste their time focusing you, and good players will focus you last (after your group is dead). It is awesome for solo play though, and I can also see it shine in zergbusting.

So yeah, I don't see how any decent SnB KotBS would grab Myrmidia's Fury over that spec.
This is a great cookie cutter SnB spec, not so much as a 2 hander. Vigi is pretty much a necessity for 2h.
Last edited by Tankbeardz on Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#46 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:37 pm

Penril wrote:This is a much better group spec than anything with Vigilance: http://www.ror.builders/career/knight-o ... 09,3093&t=

KotBS can already be super tanky. Bad players will waste their time focusing you, and good players will focus you last (after your group is dead). It is awesome for solo play though, and I can also see it shine in zergbusting.

So yeah, I don't see how any decent SnB KotBS would grab Myrmidia's Fury over that spec.
Yeah I was trying no to get into the "tri-spec" debate, but I agree.

Bottom line: I think we all agree that since no SNB will ever go that far into left tree, we can just make it "2h only" and call it good. Torq is happy, we are happy, everyone can be friends again :)
Sulfuras - Knight
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Penril
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Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#47 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Tankbeardz wrote:
Penril wrote:This is a much better group spec than anything with Vigilance: http://www.ror.builders/career/knight-o ... 09,3093&t=

KotBS can already be super tanky. Bad players will waste their time focusing you, and good players will focus you last (after your group is dead). It is awesome for solo play though, and I can also see it shine in zergbusting.

So yeah, I don't see how any decent SnB KotBS would grab Myrmidia's Fury over that spec.
This is a great cookie cutter SnB spec, not so much as a 2 hander.
Which is why I said "i don't see any SnB KotBS using Myrmidia's Fury over this spec".

Tankbeardz
Posts: 551

Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#48 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:39 pm

Penril wrote:
Tankbeardz wrote:
Penril wrote:This is a much better group spec than anything with Vigilance: http://www.ror.builders/career/knight-o ... 09,3093&t=

KotBS can already be super tanky. Bad players will waste their time focusing you, and good players will focus you last (after your group is dead). It is awesome for solo play though, and I can also see it shine in zergbusting.

So yeah, I don't see how any decent SnB KotBS would grab Myrmidia's Fury over that spec.
This is a great cookie cutter SnB spec, not so much as a 2 hander.
Which is why I said "i don't see any SnB KotBS using Myrmidia's Fury over this spec".
I understand, but you were also downplaying the ability as a whole. It can be great SnB too...just not AS great.

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Penril
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Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#49 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:40 pm

If you say so, I trust your judgement on KotBS.

Let me try this again:

- Torque is worried a buff for Relentless/Myrmidia's Fury will be used by SnB users. He doesn't want to buff SnB damage.
- Someone mentioned we needn't worry because SnB KotBS had Vigilance = probably not enough points to grab MF.
- I pointed out that this was not true because Vigilance is not a good spec for SnB users. I linked a (imho) better spec for SnB.
- However I pointed out that, since tri-spec was much better, a SnB KotBs wouldn't grab MF anyway.
- Beardz pointed out Vigilance can be great in SnB specs as well. I trust him, but this would also mean a SnB KotBS with Vigilance would probably have not many points for MF (he would miss Focused Mending for example).

tl;dr: I wouldn't worry too much about SnB KotBS grabbing MF.

Tankbeardz
Posts: 551

Re: [Chosen/KotBS] Relentless & Myrmidia's Fury

Post#50 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:43 pm

Penril wrote:If you say so, I trust your judgement on KotBS.
To be clear...your build is the best way to build SnB imo. It's pretty much the same on a chosen except with chosen tri spec you are building morale.

Anyways...we are derailed. Back on track!

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