[Witch Hunter] Dragon Gun

[roadkillrobin]

Who's Is talking about Zergs???
Talking about warbands and application of classes in that settings. Dragon Gun offers the warband composition something for this playstyle. And the aproach wich imo is alot better when a class isn't included in any style of playing would be to buff that class instead of trying to completly exclude em from playing.

Just on a curious note, whats your deffintion of a zerg?

First of "competitive warband" which dont even really exist on this server, will not take a class just for 1 ability so that a WH can commit sodoku to try and debuff destro backlines with a joke gimmick while running a garbage spec

WE/WH contribute to warbands and in oRvR by ganking reinforcements, people dont take WE's so that the can spam OYK!

There are lots of competative warbands on this server, just coz their not on when you're playing doesn't make em noexistant.
All AoE builds are garbage unless you build your comp around em and group up. If you build for AoE healing and running around solo you're garbage aswell. This is not the point. The spec is pretty weak in comparrison to what other AoE dps can pull of I can give you that. So why not buff the class so it can be included in these settings instead of just exluding em.

[bloodi]

So it cannot be aoe because "Wh is a solo gank char".

It cannot be another single target finisher becase "Wh already has strong st finishers"

At this point what it can be? It was an aoe skill and since it was bad, now WH/WE is no longer allowed to have any kind of aoe? Is that the logic we are following here? That WH/WE should not have a spec to use in warband play?

What the hell is the problem with WH having the possibility to have a mastery tree dedicated to warband play? Why the hell do you people find such a thing so outrageous and have such a hardon for telling everyone what the class is supposed to do?

I seriously dont understand why the hell is people playing in a warband something that you just cannot fathom.

[kryss]

So it cannot be aoe because "Wh is a solo gank char".

It cannot be another single target finisher becase "Wh already has strong st finishers"

At this point what it can be? It was an aoe skill and since it was bad, now WH/WE is no longer allowed to have any kind of aoe? Is that the logic we are following here? That WH/WE should not have a spec to use in warband play?

What the hell is the problem with WH having the possibility to have a mastery tree dedicated to warband play? Why the hell do you people find such a thing so outrageous and have such a hardon for telling everyone what the class is supposed to do?

I seriously dont understand why the hell is people playing in a warband something that you just cannot fathom.

I could ask the same thing: why are you asking to keep a useless (yes, useless) aoe feature which nobody cared about even on live, even within the most clueless WHs, preventing the class to be better in what his job is, which is melting STs? Do you hear many WLs asking for a rework of the supposed AoE tree, boosting Whirling Axe or Slashing Blade? No, and there is a reason, the class' role and mechanics are not really suitable to AoE play. Same goes for WH, the fact that mythic designed like that doesn't mean it should stay as it is. And yes, Mythic made many mistakes. Nowhere it's written that every class should spec for AoE: if you want to go for AoE galore, roll a class which is good at it, and DESIGNED for it, not an underpar gimmick

[bloodi]

That the only wh/we role is to go single target is something that you decided and you are telling everyone is a fact.

Its not. You dont have anything to back it up besides, you thinking it is.

The only thing we have to go for is how every god damn class in the game has some form of AoE, which indicates that having some aoe is part of the design.

There is nothing that indicates that the class is not suited for aoe, nothing at all besides his aoe skills underperforming.

What is worst of all is that is clear that making it single target would only make it a gimmicky build that would be de facto worse that the current one, you are dead sure that somehow the best path of action is to rework the entire tree in a single target fashion when they already have that.

I seriously do not understand how making it another single target tree in a class that already has a performing one is a good idea when they are clearly lacking in the aoe department, i just dont get it.

[kryss]

That the only wh/we role is to go single target is something that you decided and you are telling everyone is a fact.

Its not. You dont have anything to back it up besides, you thinking it is.

The only thing we have to go for is how every god damn class in the game has some form of AoE, which indicates that having some aoe is part of the design.

There is nothing that indicates that the class is not suited for aoe, nothing at all besides his aoe skills underperforming.

What is worst of all is that is clear that making it single target would only make it a gimmicky build that would be de facto worse that the current one, you are dead sure that somehow the best path of action is to rework the entire tree in a single target fashion when they already have that.

I seriously do not understand how making it another single target tree in a class that already has a performing one is a good idea when they are clearly lacking in the aoe department, i just dont get it.

Part of the design? As Dok/WPs already demonstrated, there aren't fixed rules on the server, the design argument has zero value. And we don't need to back up a lot, ask other WHs what they think about AoE and I'm pretty sure 90% of them wouldn't care about it, even if they made it more powerful. In 80 rrs on live and 50 here, I've never thought about AoE a single time, and again I'm sure many others feel the same. So why we should keep it, to make you and your gimp build happy because of design? Anyway, it's clear that neither you nor me will change ideas, so let's make room for others, and see how it goes

[Lileldys]

Some people are posting regarding changing Dragon Gun not being enough to solve the problems of the Confession tree. While that may be true, I would like to note that if you do not make a start on buffing the Confession tree somewhere, it will never actually be viable.

The issue I see if you don't give the whole tree a minor adjustment, nobody will bother going Confession to test just 1 skill which might be useful in that tree. Especially a 13pt investment for it. Everyone will play with it for an hour before going to a better and more tried and tested cookie cutter spec.

Heal Debuffs can come from another class and I don't understand why everyone is so insistent on bringing up that point. Slayer can have a 5s cd Heal Debuff if people spec right. WP with new Heal Debuff, SW with a "spammable" heal debuff, which pairs well with WH ailments.

Regarding the AOE of WH, in Kings Own we ran it a few times with varied success. It's better to have a Runepriest from what we tested. WH has a morale dump on par with BW, just lacking the consistent AoE damage, as AoE razor strike is pretty pathetic, and could do with a higher target cap on the tactic to push the wb vs wb dps they could provide

[Gobtar]

Since we are discussing the design of this mastery tree and it's aoe/ST relevance

Path of Confession
The Path of Confession is direct and uncompromising, and focused primarily on direct and immediate opposition to heresy. A specialist in Confession will eschew subtlety and lengthy investigations in favor of simply approaching their enemy and beating the truth out of them. While not necessarily the most powerful approach, it is effective in its straightforward brutality, and provides a small measure of increased protection when the Witch Hunter finds themselves under direct attack.

- (http://www.warhammeronline.com/armiesof ... Hunter.php) 2008
archived -

Spoiler:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080627004 ... Hunter.php

This would suggest that the Path of Confession tree was designed to be the "direct approach" favouring brute-force rather than stealth and cunning. To beat them down into submission, to overpower them over time. This is not based on purely AoE or DPS style.

We have seen AoE skills used to diminish the strength of an enemy, as well as AoE abilities that have special effect on the main target. IMO changes to Dragon gun within the Confession Tree should reflect the ability to overpower enemies and wear them down if it were to fit with the theme of the Confession playstyle be it ST or AoE.

Sapping Morale, cool-down increasers, even more tanking ability similar to a Outgoing damage debuff could play into this playstyle. Whatever it is, the utility of the ability should allow the Confession WH to fulfill the playstyle of brute-forcing whilst adding greater value to a party wishing to group with him, considering he will be forgoing the burst of the other of BAL or EW.

[Spacecraft]

Spoiler:

I just hope those that are chiming in actually play wh.

Don't flame bait - Penril.

[zumos2]

I would say what to do with the Confession tree really depends on the balance vision of the RoR team. Should every class be viable in both small and large scale? Or would just being viable in one be sufficient. If the first is the case then it would make sense to turn Confession tree (and WE tree) into an AoE tree. If viable only in small scale is sufficient you have endless opportunities.

[Stmichael1989]

The issue with trying to discuss options for dragon gun is that there isn't a solid foundation for confession on which to base potential changes. The spec as a whole lacks definition, so any sort of change to a single part of it would be directionless. Now, if we were to lay down an official stance on what confession should (and should not) be, then we can move forward with suggestions on how best to change individual parts.

In the interest of bringing this around to dragon gun specifically, let's assume that confession is focused on frontline fighting and making the witch hunter both viable and valuable in larger engagements. If dragon gun were still AoE and had a 10-15 second 25% outgoing damage debuff on a 30 second cooldown, that would fit in very well with the theme of being more durable and capable of going toe-to-toe while provide a lot of utility for group play.