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[Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement

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Arconnn
Posts: 130

[Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement

Post#1 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:10 am

Currently the Warrior Priest's morale 4's are very lackluster, Avatar of Sigmar doesn't provide enough off a buff or a duration of buffs to warrant using or building to it as an M4, Gift of Life is the same, and Alter Fate is not working ( i assume devs know?). So I want to propose a buff to Divine Amazement.

At the moment, the damage that you deal gets returned as healing only to the WP, I propose the damage that you deal gets returned as healing to your party, the reason I propose of this (And to be quite frank, I'm thinking in terms of RvR since in small scale you rarely will build to an M4 and for healers you generally want to stay sat on focused mind) for WP's in RvR since its quite a high risk but not much gain at the moment, especially for an M4. but if you change it to heal your party, WP's will have a viable m4 that has can be applied to situations in RvR and a higher reward for the time investment into building up to it, and the risk of using it due to the range (making sure you have cc immunity so its not wasted, and putting yourself in danger). I've also thought about additionally buffing it, making the duration 5-6 seconds, or increasing the range to 15-20ft ontop of the heal change.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement

Post#2 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:50 pm

Opening. Close date: 16th September.

I am of the opinion that the Grace M4 ought to heal all party members, given: a) you forego all other morales to use it (including Focused Mind, M3 Stagger for damage dumps & M1 Heal for ohshi- moments); b) it's an M4; c) it's a speccable M4. I
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Arconnn
Posts: 130

Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement

Post#3 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:33 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:50 pm Opening. Close date: 16th September.

I am of the opinion that the Grace M4 ought to heal all party members (within 100 ft, imo), given: a) you forego all other morales to use it (including Focused Mind, M3 Stagger for damage dumps & M1 Heal for ohshi- moments); b) it's an M4; c) it's a speccable M4. I
What does it mean to forego all other morales?
you mean like 3 minute cd on morales when used?
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peterthepan3
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement

Post#4 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:42 pm

Arconnn wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:33 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:50 pm Opening. Close date: 16th September.

I am of the opinion that the Grace M4 ought to heal all party members (within 100 ft, imo), given: a) you forego all other morales to use it (including Focused Mind, M3 Stagger for damage dumps & M1 Heal for ohshi- moments); b) it's an M4; c) it's a speccable M4. I
What does it mean to forego all other morales?
you mean like 3 minute cd on morales when used?
As in one prevents themself from using Focused Mind, M1 heal or M3 stagger in order to use this ability; it should be worth the wait.
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Arconnn
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement

Post#5 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:20 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:42 pm
Arconnn wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:33 pm
peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:50 pm Opening. Close date: 16th September.

I am of the opinion that the Grace M4 ought to heal all party members (within 100 ft, imo), given: a) you forego all other morales to use it (including Focused Mind, M3 Stagger for damage dumps & M1 Heal for ohshi- moments); b) it's an M4; c) it's a speccable M4. I
What does it mean to forego all other morales?
you mean like 3 minute cd on morales when used?
As in one prevents themself from using Focused Mind, M1 heal or M3 stagger in order to use this ability; it should be worth the wait.
It's just as situational as those 3, it's not a "this is better than everything if you got it" so i would disagree with that, the only thing I would prehaps prefer would be a cooldown on all morale usage if used, ideally 3 minutes.
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catholicism198
Posts: 1092

Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement

Post#6 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:27 pm

peterthepan3 wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:50 pm Opening. Close date: 16th September.

I am of the opinion that the Grace M4 ought to heal all party members (within 100 ft, imo), given: a) you forego all other morales to use it (including Focused Mind, M3 Stagger for damage dumps & M1 Heal for ohshi- moments); b) it's an M4; c) it's a speccable M4. I
Those are very terrible arguments as to why it should be buffed, and you are doing nothing more than opening a can of worms by using them in defense as to why this morale should be buffed.

Aside from mirroring its range to the DoK's version- 30ft instead of 10ft- nothing else should be done.
It is a very potent panic button meant to be used by melee healers to keep themselves alive when things get out of control.
I've used it on my DoK and have seen my health bar jump from 10% to 100% and you want that to apply to your whole group?

That won't fix the glaring issues that Grace/Sacrifice suffers from- it's not even a good band-aid fix.

All DoK/WP proposals should be dealt with the same way all Squig Herder proposals were treated and that's with what amounts to a "declined due to a class overhaul that is planned for the future."

You shouldn't tamper with something that's going to get a complete overhaul in the future.

No one wants Grace/Sacrifice to be viable more than me, you just have to be patient.

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peterthepan3
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement [Close Date: 16th September]

Post#7 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:38 pm

You seriously disagree with my point that lower, base morales shouldn't be equal in potency to speccable morale 4s? I disagree with your belief that the M4 is incredibly potent. In regards to bringing your health up to 100% from 10%...Sigmar's Shield and Divine Assault already serve that purpose - and they are abilities (one of which is core). I don't see where either the OP or myself purport that such a change would completely alleviate the 'dire' predicament of the Grace WP... but okay.

@Arcon: I think you misunderstood me, mate (or perhaps I wasn't clear). My point was that if you are on a Grace WP, in order to use this morale you must make the conscious decision to deny yourself from using FM as an escape tool/quick rez/antiKD/quick wounds buff, M3 stagger for damage purposes or the M1 heal to potentially save someone from an ohshi- moment; in its current iteration, it just isn't worth it - particularly given the selfish nature of it.

I am not saying that the ability should be 300000% stronger, but that in its current iteration it is very hard to justify using it over any of the other 3 - hence why I support making the healing component affect group members: it is a selfish M4 that offers nothing to a group, which is exacerbated by the fact that bringing a melee healer into a group is already somewhat of an iffy thing.
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catholicism198
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement [Close Date: 16th September]

Post#8 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:17 pm

Yes, I said it's poor argument as to why it should be buffed- another way of looking at it would be, "Focused Mind should be nerfed because it is a selfish base m2 that trumps speccable m4s."

DA/CoP both help you stay up, which in turn helps your group stay up. -Every Morale serves one purpose or another and buffing this to the point where you whole group can go from 10-100% over the course of four seconds is beyond over-powered.

I think you're failing to look at this objectively because you cannot look past your own biases- you're even trying to warrant your reasoning against the OP.

All that should be done right now is extend the range to mirror the DoK's since the Morales are exactly identical in every other way.

My other point, which you failed to address, still stands- all discussions with regards to the WP/DoK should be placed on hold until Azarael+others iron out how they want the classes to function and set a solid foundation before you start building on it.
Needlessly tampering with the class before anything is finalized is a foolish thing to do.

You cannot lay a solid foundation when the ground beneath keeps shifting in every which way.

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peterthepan3
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement [Close Date: 16th September]

Post#9 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:37 pm

catholicism198 wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:17 pm Yes, I said it's poor argument as to why it should be buffed- another way of looking at it would be, "Focused Mind should be nerfed because it is a selfish base m2 that trumps speccable m4s."
M4s should be significantly better than lower morales. There is a reason why most people don't use speccable M4s over core m4s/m1-3s. This isn't because lower morales are overperforming (perhaps some are, but Focused Mind definitely isn't one); it's because most of the speccable M4s are either niche (WH excommunication) or flat-out garbage (Havoc M4).
DA/CoP both help you stay up, which in turn helps your group stay up. -Every Morale serves one purpose or another and buffing this to the point where you whole group can go from 10-100% over the course of four seconds is beyond over-powered.
No it doesn't: for every GCD you spend healing yourself, you are depriving your group of heals. It is one of the weaknesses of playing a healer that must constantly be in the frontline because you find yourself focused a hell of a lot more than a conventional backliner, which can ultimately lead to your group simply being overrun.
I think you're failing to look at this objectively because you cannot look past your own biases- you're even trying to warrant your reasoning against the OP.
I have no biases. I do not have any vested interests. I would rarely use the M4 - even in a buffed state - because mobility issues/damage morale are just more group-orientated/easier to acquire. I play both sides on a regular basis which goes to show how much you know about me!

My other point, which you failed to address, still stands- all discussions with regards to the WP/DoK should be placed on hold until Azarael+others iron out how they want the classes to function and set a solid foundation before you start building on it.
Needlessly tampering with the class before anything is finalized is a foolish thing to do.
Morale 4s have not been discussed whatsoever in regards to a potential Melee WP overhaul, given their niche status. Morale gains have been lowered again, so there is no crazy morale era in smallscale (which is where you would bring a Grace WP). This is precisely why I thought I'd open this.
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catholicism198
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Divine Amazement [Close Date: 16th September]

Post#10 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:11 pm

It's not over-performing? Aside of a Zealot and Rune Priest, how often to hear about healers taking their class specific m2 over their base one?

Back to the topic: It's literally only one GCD. One.
Changing anything with regards to the WP/DoK is reckless because you don't know how any of the changes will affect the potency of the morale abilities. They're all connected.
It's also not as you're the only healer in the group. Not everything falls on you.
Whether or not Grace will only benefit small scale 6v1 fights is yet to be seen. No one knows how it'll perform vs Salvation.

I never said you were biased to either side, I've seen you play on both sides. It's even in your signature. It's with regards to the class, not the faction. -If the change is made for the WP, then it will be changed for the DoK as well since the same argument can be made.

I play a melee healing DoK. Even though it sucks. I try. I'd love to play a Grace WP too, but the class is so boring- I've tried here and in other places. A casted heal in a melee class? I'm going to wait so I can get a better understanding of how the new iteration works and see what changes/tweaks can be made. Getting off-topic though.

I've made my case. I've said what needed to be said. There's no point in going any further or bothering. Being able to take your group from 10-100% health is game changing/game breaking. No other healer- aside from a melee Rune Priest- can do such a thing.

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