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[BO] Da Toughest

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joaolol
Posts: 15

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#21 » Tue May 22, 2018 2:28 pm

dansari wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:10 am
Tbf they have already outlined why it's bad.. doesn't stack with other wounds buffs, stat steal or armor/resist is much better, wounds buff is low comparatively, only works for yourself, etc
indeed. both proposals from op still shadows the war bellow... but i truly like the idea to be able to run other builds with BO, and different gameplay...

>maybe a solid +X% parry buff (to 2H) and +wounds proc on receiving dmg?

>maybe decreasing da though path skills cd +wounds proc on receiving dmg?
Spoiler:
Nefarian78 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Look at this build, for example: RoR.builders - Offensive 2h
this is too squishy... u need at least 500 tough... without rugged and focusing str talis u wont be able to do it... 2h bo still tank even if you go full offensive... at least is what i like to play x) offtank bo
Nature/Biggest Stat Steals do not take wounds. Please don't spread misinformation. - ptp3

edit: removed wrong information.
Last edited by joaolol on Fri May 25, 2018 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bignusty
Posts: 325

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#22 » Tue May 22, 2018 9:23 pm

joaolol wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:28 pm
dansari wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:10 am
Tbf they have already outlined why it's bad.. doesn't stack with other wounds buffs, stat steal or armor/resist is much better, wounds buff is low comparatively, only works for yourself, etc
indeed. both proposals from op still shadows the war bellow... why would i want a wounds buff if da biggest can already steal it to me? stealing stats is a must in all fights... but i truly like the idea to be able to run other builds with BO, and different gameplay...

>maybe a solid +X% parry buff (to 2H) and +wounds proc on receiving dmg?

>maybe decreasing da though path skills cd +wounds proc on receiving dmg?
Spoiler:
Nefarian78 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Look at this build, for example: RoR.builders - Offensive 2h
this is too squishy... u need at least 500 tough... without rugged and focusing str talis u wont be able to do it... 2h bo still tank even if you go full offensive... at least is what i like to play x) offtank bo

Dont forget Da toughness mid spec is a tank spec three at 2H BO just DyG is viable so just a parry buff for 2H isnt appropriate for this Three. As we said before a better wound buff (+100 like conqueror why not) + a random stats proc on hit or being hit (parry/block/dodge/disrupt) like 2h epic quest weapons for 10 sec .

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Tesq
Suspended
Posts: 5346

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#23 » Wed May 23, 2018 12:11 pm

joaolol wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:28 pm
dansari wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:10 am
Tbf they have already outlined why it's bad.. doesn't stack with other wounds buffs, stat steal or armor/resist is much better, wounds buff is low comparatively, only works for yourself, etc
indeed. both proposals from op still shadows the war bellow... why would i want a wounds buff if da biggest can already steal it to me? stealing stats is a must in all fights... but i truly like the idea to be able to run other builds with BO, and different gameplay...

>maybe a solid +X% parry buff (to 2H) and +wounds proc on receiving dmg?

>maybe decreasing da though path skills cd +wounds proc on receiving dmg?
Spoiler:
Nefarian78 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Look at this build, for example: RoR.builders - Offensive 2h
this is too squishy... u need at least 500 tough... without rugged and focusing str talis u wont be able to do it... 2h bo still tank even if you go full offensive... at least is what i like to play x) offtank bo
Stat steal dont steal wounds, gear is not relevant for balance ( just more options and change with gear cap).

A wounds buff is better vs enemy.morales than a single bubble for exemple while is inferior in other aspects....
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Derezzed619
Posts: 11

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest Bellow [Close Date June 2]

Post#24 » Wed May 23, 2018 1:08 pm

How about make the bellow to proc more often? Currently it cannot be procced again until the timer on buff has faded. Of course the value might need be lowered then if its starts to proc often causing too op self healing. Maybe able to proc after 5 sec again and not 10 sec?

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mursaat1337
Posts: 42

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest Bellow [Close Date June 2]

Post#25 » Wed May 23, 2018 4:11 pm

why don't you just enhance the war cry to be party wide and increase the wounds buff(like double it), do the same for SM and do some math to see how much mitigation you want and statistically figure out how you want this implemented so that the mirror has the same mitigation for balancing. should be used as a defensive war cry to ease aoe pressure, can be used in wide range of choke points if vsing aoe cleave. keeps the main mechanic idea, just enhanced and keeps that tank feeling of an ability.

right now this war cry is a really bad pve mechanic to mitigate single target dmg and its not even that good in mitigating single target damage to begin with.
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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest Bellow [Close Date June 2]

Post#26 » Wed May 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Spoiler:
Ramasee wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:48 pm

Tooltip value from a 1050 intelligence bright wizard is ~650.

Quick inquiry into the toughness values of online, well-geared guild mates nets me a rough average of 275 toughness for non tanks. Also toughness would mitigate the damage anyways, so including it into calculations doesn't show the reality unless you also mitigate the non absorb damage by resistance/armor.

650 base damage.
BW/Sorc crit = 650 x 2.5 = 1625
+50% crit damage tactic class crits = 650 * 2 = 1300
Everyone else = 650 * 1.5 = 975
No crit = 650

After 40% mitigation, and 275 toughness:
650 - 55 (toughness) = 595
BW: 595 * 2.5 * 0.6 = 892.5
Tactic: 595 * 2 * 0.6 = 714
Else: 595 * 1.5 * 0.6 = 535.5
No crit: 595 * 0.6 = 357

Phantom Blade Values:
325 = 0pt
357 = 3pt (amount dipped into for parry/block tactic)
400 =7pt (amount left over if WW bot build, and dumping all extra points into vaul)
466 = 13 pt (full vaul build, lets be honest no one is pushing to the m4)

595 - 466 (bubble) = 129
BW: 129 * 2.5 * 0.6 = 193.5
Tactic: 129 * 2 * 0.6 = 154.8
Else: 129 * 1.5 * 0.6 = 116.1
No crit: 129 * 0.6 = 77.4

Damage 466 Bubble Can Mitigate:
BW: 892.5 - 193.5 = 698.5 (150% of bubble tooltip)
Tactic: 714 - 154.8 = 559.2 (120% of bubble tooltip)
Else: 535.5 - 116.1 = 419.4 (90% of bubble tooltip)
No Crit: 357 - 77.4 = 279.6 (60% of bubble tooltip)
We've got the math on the effective mitigation of the bubble for SM. (There's some disagreement on critical damage from classes, but that was resolved here on the spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing)
For those that do not know, the absorb from phantom's blade cannot be triggered until either the duration expires, or the bubble is dropped. So it does mean that it can mitigate more damage over time compared to black orc wounds buff.

This BO thread runs parallel to the phantom's blade thread in that its asking for the war bellow to affect the party. So perhaps the suggestion there: reducing the duration to 5s and making it affect the group can be partially mirrored here. Instead of making the wounds buff last 5s, still allow it to last 10s but refreshable (with the heal accompanying) after 5s.

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Bignusty
Posts: 325

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest Bellow [Close Date June 2]

Post#27 » Wed May 23, 2018 6:12 pm

Ramasee wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:13 pm
Spoiler:
Ramasee wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:48 pm

Tooltip value from a 1050 intelligence bright wizard is ~650.

Quick inquiry into the toughness values of online, well-geared guild mates nets me a rough average of 275 toughness for non tanks. Also toughness would mitigate the damage anyways, so including it into calculations doesn't show the reality unless you also mitigate the non absorb damage by resistance/armor.

650 base damage.
BW/Sorc crit = 650 x 2.5 = 1625
+50% crit damage tactic class crits = 650 * 2 = 1300
Everyone else = 650 * 1.5 = 975
No crit = 650

After 40% mitigation, and 275 toughness:
650 - 55 (toughness) = 595
BW: 595 * 2.5 * 0.6 = 892.5
Tactic: 595 * 2 * 0.6 = 714
Else: 595 * 1.5 * 0.6 = 535.5
No crit: 595 * 0.6 = 357

Phantom Blade Values:
325 = 0pt
357 = 3pt (amount dipped into for parry/block tactic)
400 =7pt (amount left over if WW bot build, and dumping all extra points into vaul)
466 = 13 pt (full vaul build, lets be honest no one is pushing to the m4)

595 - 466 (bubble) = 129
BW: 129 * 2.5 * 0.6 = 193.5
Tactic: 129 * 2 * 0.6 = 154.8
Else: 129 * 1.5 * 0.6 = 116.1
No crit: 129 * 0.6 = 77.4

Damage 466 Bubble Can Mitigate:
BW: 892.5 - 193.5 = 698.5 (150% of bubble tooltip)
Tactic: 714 - 154.8 = 559.2 (120% of bubble tooltip)
Else: 535.5 - 116.1 = 419.4 (90% of bubble tooltip)
No Crit: 357 - 77.4 = 279.6 (60% of bubble tooltip)
We've got the math on the effective mitigation of the bubble for SM. (There's some disagreement on critical damage from classes, but that was resolved here on the spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing)
For those that do not know, the absorb from phantom's blade cannot be triggered until either the duration expires, or the bubble is dropped. So it does mean that it can mitigate more damage over time compared to black orc wounds buff.

This BO thread runs parallel to the phantom's blade thread in that its asking for the war bellow to affect the party. So perhaps the suggestion there: reducing the duration to 5s and making it affect the group can be partially mirrored here. Instead of making the wounds buff last 5s, still allow it to last 10s but refreshable (with the heal accompanying) after 5s.
Yes why not good idea but the wound buff need to be buffed whit 14 points on the three +46 wounds its garbage totaly useless on all situation and you need to attack a target to proc the buff against heavy ranged burst or ranged attack this cry is totally useless so making it to ptoc being hited could be a good idea to this three spec is more defensiv like da greenest one instead of Da Brawler is more offensif

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest Bellow [Close Date June 2]

Post#28 » Wed May 23, 2018 8:23 pm

Cleared up a few things and edited some posts.

Reminder: please don't make comments that aren't factually true.
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predathore
Posts: 19

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest Bellow [Close Date June 2]

Post#29 » Thu May 24, 2018 4:18 am

Ramasee wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:13 pm
Spoiler:
Ramasee wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:48 pm

Tooltip value from a 1050 intelligence bright wizard is ~650.

Quick inquiry into the toughness values of online, well-geared guild mates nets me a rough average of 275 toughness for non tanks. Also toughness would mitigate the damage anyways, so including it into calculations doesn't show the reality unless you also mitigate the non absorb damage by resistance/armor.

650 base damage.
BW/Sorc crit = 650 x 2.5 = 1625
+50% crit damage tactic class crits = 650 * 2 = 1300
Everyone else = 650 * 1.5 = 975
No crit = 650

After 40% mitigation, and 275 toughness:
650 - 55 (toughness) = 595
BW: 595 * 2.5 * 0.6 = 892.5
Tactic: 595 * 2 * 0.6 = 714
Else: 595 * 1.5 * 0.6 = 535.5
No crit: 595 * 0.6 = 357

Phantom Blade Values:
325 = 0pt
357 = 3pt (amount dipped into for parry/block tactic)
400 =7pt (amount left over if WW bot build, and dumping all extra points into vaul)
466 = 13 pt (full vaul build, lets be honest no one is pushing to the m4)

595 - 466 (bubble) = 129
BW: 129 * 2.5 * 0.6 = 193.5
Tactic: 129 * 2 * 0.6 = 154.8
Else: 129 * 1.5 * 0.6 = 116.1
No crit: 129 * 0.6 = 77.4

Damage 466 Bubble Can Mitigate:
BW: 892.5 - 193.5 = 698.5 (150% of bubble tooltip)
Tactic: 714 - 154.8 = 559.2 (120% of bubble tooltip)
Else: 535.5 - 116.1 = 419.4 (90% of bubble tooltip)
No Crit: 357 - 77.4 = 279.6 (60% of bubble tooltip)
We've got the math on the effective mitigation of the bubble for SM. (There's some disagreement on critical damage from classes, but that was resolved here on the spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing)
For those that do not know, the absorb from phantom's blade cannot be triggered until either the duration expires, or the bubble is dropped. So it does mean that it can mitigate more damage over time compared to black orc wounds buff.

This BO thread runs parallel to the phantom's blade thread in that its asking for the war bellow to affect the party. So perhaps the suggestion there: reducing the duration to 5s and making it affect the group can be partially mirrored here. Instead of making the wounds buff last 5s, still allow it to last 10s but refreshable (with the heal accompanying) after 5s.

I support this option. This would make bellow switching more active and rewarding.

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Tesq
Suspended
Posts: 5346

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest Bellow [Close Date June 2]

Post#30 » Thu May 24, 2018 11:41 pm

no way, make able both to refresh with out any ICD will be crazy, just spam skill and keep proc bubble /wounds since you have a 25% proc.....

icd 5 sec for both and proc chance for both will lead to similar results even if bo/sm have 1 absorb and the other one a wounds buff, about the wounds buff value, the current value is ok for a 5 sec icd.
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-"Loop warned into oblivion" --> smell like chaosy enought :D
-Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D
-GMs --> dosent matter what they say not, they get offend by colors so watch out plebs! :D

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