Recent Topics

Ads

[BO] Da Toughest

Proposals after the two week discussion period will be moved to this sub-forum for internal review.

Moderators: Balance Forum Mod, Developer, Game Master, Management, Communications, Moderator, Web Developer

User avatar
Toldavf
Posts: 1586

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#11 » Sun May 20, 2018 1:45 am

Spoiler:
Image
As i recall a wounds buff sive increase was on the cards on live at one point.
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-

Image

Ads
User avatar
Bignusty
Posts: 325

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#12 » Sun May 20, 2018 9:36 am

Toldavf wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 1:45 am
Spoiler:
Image
As i recall a wounds buff sive increase was on the cards on live at one point.
Look at your red tactic you maybe have +1 mastery point on Da toughness tree and you were rr90+ or 100 whit your weared axe weapon.

And to compare whit other cry at 14 points you can stealh 114 stats / You can up 866 your armor and 300+ your resist whitout cooldown

At 14 points on Da Toughness tree you have the KD and you buff your life for 46 and only for you whit 10 sec cooldown ...

As i said DYG is an important abilitie for us at 14pts its already a huge nerf (when BG can take the KD at 10 point) so that why Da toughness buff need to be reworked and more helpful for everybody in your party.

User avatar
DokB
Legacy RR80
Posts: 516

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#13 » Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am

Even if you improved the wounds buff value to something similar to Toldavf’s screenshot, Da Toughest doesn’t stack with your Conq proc (or any other wounds buff I believe – Unless I missed a skill that works differently and works like a tactic in regards to stacking - maybe Zealot wounds buff?) which makes it undesirable. Even 100 wounds is quite easy to burn through in 10 seconds, in 6v6 and especially RvR WB play so it will remain a bad war bellow IMO. Definitely not something worth swapping to at 55AP and praying it procs before swapping back to DB/DG.

I don’t want to stall the discussion, but the proposed solutions aren’t really going to make the skill any more desirable the way I see it. BO has a lot more issues in their mid/right tree and Da Toughest is only a small part of that. Not sure if it’s my place to suggest a different proposal, but the discussion from last year on DT had some decent ideas if I remember correctly.
Zoggof - Black Orc
Doinks - Ironbreaker
Leatherman - Blackguard

User avatar
Acidic
Posts: 1640
Contact:

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#14 » Mon May 21, 2018 8:53 am

Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 4:30 pm
What about the proc randomly triggering some of these for the party;
+10% parry
+10% dodge
+10% disrupt
+10% reduced chance to be crit
+10% speed
+10% physical damage mitigation

Or what else.
Say, the proc gets and ICD of 2? seconds, and each buff lasts maybe 5? seconds, it would randomly provide variety of choice to the party nearby, same way statsteal randomly gives good stuff or sometimes gives stuff not helping in that situation (like steal ballistic skill from a sorc, or Int from a tank).
Or ICD of 3 sec and 10 sec effect. And lot of randomness.

Alternatively, it could also debuff those, while stealing the benefit to own party. Randomly.
(maybe debuff by 5% and buff by 10%, not sure)

Just throwing ideas, they are probably flawed.

Suggesting these, because whilst groupwide absorb buff would help PB, it would still lose most of time against the benefits of stat stealing.
Stealing a post from the sword master proposal discution that I think maps very well to what I would like to see for this war bellow

User avatar
Bignusty
Posts: 325

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#15 » Mon May 21, 2018 9:58 am

DokB wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am
Even if you improved the wounds buff value to something similar to Toldavf’s screenshot, Da Toughest doesn’t stack with your Conq proc (or any other wounds buff I believe – Unless I missed a skill that works differently and works like a tactic in regards to stacking - maybe Zealot wounds buff?) which makes it undesirable. Even 100 wounds is quite easy to burn through in 10 seconds, in 6v6 and especially RvR WB play so it will remain a bad war bellow IMO. Definitely not something worth swapping to at 55AP and praying it procs before swapping back to DB/DG.

I don’t want to stall the discussion, but the proposed solutions aren’t really going to make the skill any more desirable the way I see it. BO has a lot more issues in their mid/right tree and Da Toughest is only a small part of that. Not sure if it’s my place to suggest a different proposal, but the discussion from last year on DT had some decent ideas if I remember correctly.
It is 1 proposal but im open for all idea because this cry need to be reworked first as a party buff + i'm agree 100 wounds is quite easy to brun but with a party buff + healer support and switching guard it will be a good begin.



Acidic wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:53 am
Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 4:30 pm
What about the proc randomly triggering some of these for the party;
+10% parry
+10% dodge
+10% disrupt
+10% reduced chance to be crit
+10% speed
+10% physical damage mitigation

Or what else.
Say, the proc gets and ICD of 2? seconds, and each buff lasts maybe 5? seconds, it would randomly provide variety of choice to the party nearby, same way statsteal randomly gives good stuff or sometimes gives stuff not helping in that situation (like steal ballistic skill from a sorc, or Int from a tank).
Or ICD of 3 sec and 10 sec effect. And lot of randomness.

Alternatively, it could also debuff those, while stealing the benefit to own party. Randomly.
(maybe debuff by 5% and buff by 10%, not sure)

Just throwing ideas, they are probably flawed.

Suggesting these, because whilst groupwide absorb buff would help PB, it would still lose most of time against the benefits of stat stealing.
Stealing a post from the sword master proposal discution that I think maps very well to what I would like to see for this war bellow
Its a good idea but we dont need to remove the core of the cry or maybe you r talking about to add 1 more randomly proc like you say above + the party wound buff ? that is insteresting if i'm right.

User avatar
Acidic
Posts: 1640
Contact:

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#16 » Mon May 21, 2018 10:47 am

Spoiler:
Bignusty wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:58 am
DokB wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am
Even if you improved the wounds buff value to something similar to Toldavf’s screenshot, Da Toughest doesn’t stack with your Conq proc (or any other wounds buff I believe – Unless I missed a skill that works differently and works like a tactic in regards to stacking - maybe Zealot wounds buff?) which makes it undesirable. Even 100 wounds is quite easy to burn through in 10 seconds, in 6v6 and especially RvR WB play so it will remain a bad war bellow IMO. Definitely not something worth swapping to at 55AP and praying it procs before swapping back to DB/DG.

I don’t want to stall the discussion, but the proposed solutions aren’t really going to make the skill any more desirable the way I see it. BO has a lot more issues in their mid/right tree and Da Toughest is only a small part of that. Not sure if it’s my place to suggest a different proposal, but the discussion from last year on DT had some decent ideas if I remember correctly.
It is 1 proposal but im open for all idea because this cry need to be reworked first as a party buff + i'm agree 100 wounds is quite easy to brun but with a party buff + healer support and switching guard it will be a good begin.



Acidic wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:53 am
Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 4:30 pm
What about the proc randomly triggering some of these for the party;
+10% parry
+10% dodge
+10% disrupt
+10% reduced chance to be crit
+10% speed
+10% physical damage mitigation

Or what else.
Say, the proc gets and ICD of 2? seconds, and each buff lasts maybe 5? seconds, it would randomly provide variety of choice to the party nearby, same way statsteal randomly gives good stuff or sometimes gives stuff not helping in that situation (like steal ballistic skill from a sorc, or Int from a tank).
Or ICD of 3 sec and 10 sec effect. And lot of randomness.

Alternatively, it could also debuff those, while stealing the benefit to own party. Randomly.
(maybe debuff by 5% and buff by 10%, not sure)

Just throwing ideas, they are probably flawed.

Suggesting these, because whilst groupwide absorb buff would help PB, it would still lose most of time against the benefits of stat stealing.
Stealing a post from the sword master proposal discution that I think maps very well to what I would like to see for this war bellow
Its a good idea but we dont need to remove the core of the cry or maybe you r talking about to add 1 more randomly proc like you say above + the party wound buff ? that is insteresting if i'm right.
Well to me the core wounds buff is not interesting, does not stack well and low value so I see little Value in it. However I see a good potential for alternate group steel of the type parry dodge ....
This would certainly give this a place to have up and would be a competitor to current stat steal
This could be seen as current stat steal being offensive version and this one defensive
But if wounds was something desirable it could also be in the list of defensive stats that are randomly stolen

User avatar
Bignusty
Posts: 325

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#17 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:57 am

Acidic wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:47 am
Spoiler:
Bignusty wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:58 am
DokB wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am
Even if you improved the wounds buff value to something similar to Toldavf’s screenshot, Da Toughest doesn’t stack with your Conq proc (or any other wounds buff I believe – Unless I missed a skill that works differently and works like a tactic in regards to stacking - maybe Zealot wounds buff?) which makes it undesirable. Even 100 wounds is quite easy to burn through in 10 seconds, in 6v6 and especially RvR WB play so it will remain a bad war bellow IMO. Definitely not something worth swapping to at 55AP and praying it procs before swapping back to DB/DG.

I don’t want to stall the discussion, but the proposed solutions aren’t really going to make the skill any more desirable the way I see it. BO has a lot more issues in their mid/right tree and Da Toughest is only a small part of that. Not sure if it’s my place to suggest a different proposal, but the discussion from last year on DT had some decent ideas if I remember correctly.
It is 1 proposal but im open for all idea because this cry need to be reworked first as a party buff + i'm agree 100 wounds is quite easy to brun but with a party buff + healer support and switching guard it will be a good begin.



Acidic wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:53 am

Stealing a post from the sword master proposal discution that I think maps very well to what I would like to see for this war bellow
Its a good idea but we dont need to remove the core of the cry or maybe you r talking about to add 1 more randomly proc like you say above + the party wound buff ? that is insteresting if i'm right.
Well to me the core wounds buff is not interesting, does not stack well and low value so I see little Value in it. However I see a good potential for alternate group steel of the type parry dodge ....
This would certainly give this a place to have up and would be a competitor to current stat steal
This could be seen as current stat steal being offensive version and this one defensive
But if wounds was something desirable it could also be in the list of defensive stats that are randomly stolen

Really interesting i think parry / dodge / disrupt as party buff should be enough we have armor buff on da greenest and for armor penetration there is liniments to counter this, physical damage da greenest buff and chance to be crit you have renown mastery points to counter this. So for proc mechanic "on hit" or on "being hit" ?

But i dont know if is it possible to remove i thing to add annther thing for developper . But this idea is really interesting.

User avatar
Nefarian78
Posts: 411

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#18 » Mon May 21, 2018 5:59 pm

Aurandilaz SM proposal looks good.

In my opinion it would be better if Greenest had that effect and Toughest something else. It still is a nice solution, and it is much better than the useless wounds buff we have now.
Vorak - Capulet

Ads
anarchypark
Posts: 1601

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#19 » Tue May 22, 2018 8:48 am

sry to interrupt, but you never used the skill for rr60 yet saying it's bad.
'never used cuz it' bad'
that's not persuasive.
try at least 1week and give us feedback?
there must be pros and cons.
or have use in particular build.

I'm curious how does it synergy with wound build of BO.

this'll be my last post in this discussion.
I don't have BO.
SM8, SW8, AM7, WL4, KoBS5, BW4, WP8, WH4, IB4, EG4, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH4, Shm5, Chop3
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

dansari
Suspended
Posts: 2524

Re: [Black Orc] Da Toughest cry

Post#20 » Tue May 22, 2018 11:10 am

Tbf they have already outlined why it's bad.. doesn't stack with other wounds buffs, stat steal or armor/resist is much better, wounds buff is low comparatively, only works for yourself, etc
<Salt Factory>

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest